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Thread: 5.4.x Rogue guild by Rilu | Please show constructive feedback

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    5.4.x Rogue guild by Rilu | Please show constructive feedback

    First and foremost, Rogue is a class I like to look at as the class that changed less since vanilla. Sure someone could argue that point but that is just my opinion. My background as a rogue comes from playing the class since vanilla, my very first 60 was a Mage, which I disliked at that point, and when I changed servers and started a night elf rogue on Runetotem-US, I found a class which I enjoyed playing. I never stopped. Playing a rogue has been my pastime for the past 8-9 years. My personality as a player shows that I donít like to play just for fun, I enjoy being hardcore when I can. Unfortunately due to life events not all the time I can do that, being hardcore wow player require a lot of dedication and time. Emphasis on that second one. Wow is a very time consuming game we all know that, and this guide was created to help minimize the time rogues out there need to learn their class. I like to think of myself as a pretty complete Rogue, I got a solid PVP background, and still join an arena here and there, but my current focus is PVE, and even thought I donít have 14/14 heroics at this moment at some point last expansion I was one of the top rogues on my server, I think I have some stuff to teach being a rogue for so long. So here it goes:

    I will divide these into topics and will summarize it at the end:

    I've used a variety of addons in the past, currently my setup has the following:
    Nug Combo Bar. (Sometimes turned off)
    Tellmewhen. (Big focus on this one)

    Dps tool website, reforges, gems, Dps simulator: http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/
    Guides, tools, tips: http://www.noxxic.com/
    How to setup tell me when as a rogue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzwIAPJOe0A
    How to setup tell me when as a rogue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQqSwyCOk-k

    My advice to every wow player out there is to get a Razer Orb weaver or another single hand keyboard, fully programmable. A 5 or more buttons mouse is also a good purchase, i have several ones I like, currently I use a Cyborg MMO7 but any mouse with multiple programmable buttons will do. This is very useful when making macros, and once you get used to it, it improves your gameplay dramatically. I am not getting paid for this, but if you have the spare money those tools will help on your response time to events.

    Combat: Best Aoe Rogue hands down, scales really well with gear, and itís the easiest to play (considering all 3 specs currently)

    Sub: Best Single target dps, scales ok with gear, hard to play due to multiple dots and buffs you have to keep track of. But very enjoyable.

    Assassination: Solid dps for Aoe and Single target, Big advantage over the other 2 specs: has an execute ability. Lots of poison damage.

    My favorite: Sub.
    The one I use: Combat.

    Sub is a very enjoyable spec to play, with a short strong DPS cool down and being able to burst very highly on single target, itís my favorite spec. It requires a dagger on the main hand. You do have to keep tabs on a few buffs, and dots like: Hemorrhage, rupture, slice and Dice, find weakness, garrote.

    Combat is also enjoyable, it has the practicality of Blade Flurry. Which deals damage to nearby enemies at the cost of reducing your energy recovery rate, as a combat you also reduce the cool down Adrenaline Rush and Shadowblades every damaging finishing move you perform which is nice. It requires a slow weapon on the main hand to deal good damage. When being a Combat Rogue, you have to keep tabs on: Bandit's Guile (3 stages), Slice and dice, Rupture, Revealing strike.

    Assassination is a very timed spec, itís great for Rogues who like dealing tons of damage when the boss is almost dead, it requires 2 daggers. The amount of buffs/debuffs you end up juggling is not a lot and the magic damage on this spec is high, and the amount of dots and buffs to take care of is not as many as sub.

    If you are a beginner with this class, I seriously advise you to be combat rogue for a few factors:
    1 easier to get a 2.6 weapon than a dagger. (Not always true, but in most cases.)
    2 less buffs/dots to worry about.
    3 great aoe damage off Blade flurry.

    Combat is a great spec, because most rogues will be able to do a fair amount of damage standing at the right place. While with Sub you always need to be behind your target, combat sometimes will require you to be at the targets side or in front, in order to hit another target with blade flurry.

    Rogue is a pure dps class, no matter what spec you pick your whole will always be to deal damage. It may change in one fight or another, maybe it will be to make sure to interrupt a spell, or to make sure something dies or gets stuned, but mainly your hole is to deal the maximum amount of damage during a fight. Dealing damage is your priority but you cannot ignore mechanics to do so.
    Maximizing damage involves a lot of factors, with the help of tricks of the trade, you can be the DPS that has most time hitting the boss. Meaning if you cast tricks of the trade on your tank, you can break your stealth with ambush or garrosh as soon as the DBM pull counter hits 0. Sometimes this will give you 1-3 seconds of damage dealing compared to others in your group. Rogues are very versatile, with many defensive abilities and tricks, this class can be tons of fun to master.

    Rogues are about combo points and energy. One of the objectives as a rogue is to never allow your energy to cap during combat. That is how you lose dps, your energy should always be below 50% during combat. Sometimes it will cap, during a killing spree, or adrenaline rush + bloodlust. But a good rogue knows not to let his energy cap.
    Combo points are the potency of your finishing moves, the first slice and dice of the fight you want to cast with 2 combo points ( as a Sub rogue you want to cast a slice and dice off premeditation during the prepot/prepull time). But after that you want to cast every eviscesserate /envenom/Rupture with 5 combo points, with the help of Anticipation you will never need to cast your abilities with 4 or 3 combo points, if you are doing so, 90% of the times you are doing it wrong. The only time you will need to cast a finishing move with less than 5 combo points is: 1) if your slice and dice is less than 2 seconds on its duration or 2) if you are in deep need of healing, using recuperate. 3) If you need a stun to stop a cast or a target at the moment with kidney shot. 4) In assassination spec, you use envenom to renew slice and dice, if slice and dice is about to drop you may need to cast your envenom with less than 5 combo points. but this 4th case is another story.
    Other than those you will always cast your eviscerate /envenom/Rupture/Slice and Dice with 5 combo points.

    Haste>Agility>Hit cap> Exp cap> Mastery>Crit

    Agility>Haste>Hit cap>Exp cap> Crit>Mastery

    Agility>Mastery>Hit cap> Exp cap> Haste> Crit

    Sinister Strike - Better used when equipped with a 2.6 speed agility weapon on the main hand. You will use sinister strike to build your combo points, it cost 50 energy up from 30, this was a great change, it allows combat rogues to manage their energy much more effectively, even though this combo point builder cost a lot you will still cap your energy many times when Bloodlust is combined with adrenaline rush. Sinister strike should be used to prevent your energy from capping even though you have 4 combo points, if you have the Anticipation talent on the last tier you can constantly use your finishing moves with 5 combo points, because even if you have 4 combo points on the target and your sinister strike adds 2 more, when you use a finishing move, you will be back at 1.

    Backstab. As a subtlety rogue you will use Backstab as your main combo point builder. Backstab will require a dagger on the main hand, and also will require you to be standing on the back side of the target. In fights where the mechanics donít allow you to be behind the target you will need to use Hemorrhage as your front combo point builder, by using Hemorrhage you will be losing a percentage of your combo building dps, so it better be necessary not to be standing behind the target.

    Mutilate. it requires 2 daggers, itís a double ability (meaning you will get 2 damages using this ability) itís a 2-3 combo point builder, it does not require you to be behind the target, and the only time you will not use another combo point builder is when the target is about to die, at that point (35% of health) you will no longer use Mutilate, you will use dispatch. Also when Blindside is active you will use Dispatch instead of mutilate to build your combo points.

    As a combat rogue you will generally want to open with:
    Ambush that will give you 1 or 2 combo points.
    Slice and Dice this will give you a short duration but for now its going to be enough.
    Revealing strike once. Just to apply de debuff on the target
    Sinister strike until you have close to zero energy.
    Killing Spree. This will most likely cap your energy and deal a lot of damage.

    If the target has 5 combo points:
    Rupture. For a max duration rupture.

    If the target does not have 5 combo points:
    Sinister strike until 5.
    Rupture for max duration.

    Your slice and dice will be almost down at this point.
    Sinister strike to 5 combo points if you still have time to do so before slice and dice drop.
    Use Slice and dice this time for max duration.

    Otherwise just use slice and dice with 3 or more combo points.

    At this point you want to spend all your energy again using sinister strike, so you can use the following macro:

    /cast Adrenaline Rush
    /cast Shadow blades.


    Step B -
    After this is done, you will now start juggling:
    Is Killing Spree on cool down?
    If no than drain your energy and use it.
    If yes move on.
    Is your Adrenaline Rush/Shadow Blades in CD?
    IF no than drain your energy and use it.
    IF yes move on.

    Is slice and dice about to finish?
    If yes, than build combo points until 1 second before it finishes and re apply.
    If no move on:
    Is rupture about to finish? (5 seconds os less)
    If yes, than build combo points until 1 seconds before it ends, as it ends, re apply rupture.
    IF no move on:
    Do you have 5 combo points on the target?
    If yes eviscerate. If no than build combo points until you have 5 and go back to step B

    Dbm pull is out you have generally a countdown of 10seconds.
    At 10s you will use stealth.
    At 9s you will use premeditation. This will give you 2 combo points.
    At 8s you will use Slice and dice. And break your stealth. This will give you 18 seconds of slice and dice. 10 seconds in combat.
    At 7s you will use tricks of the trade on your tank.
    At 2s you will use a pre combat potion: Virmen's Bite.
    At 1S you will use stealth.

    You are not in combat:
    Garrote. This will activate your sanguinary veins and give you 2 combo points.
    Hemorrhage. Just to apply the bleeding on the target
    Backstab. Until you have 5 combo points.
    Rupture for max duration.

    Step B:
    Macro (/Use Shadow Dance /Use Shadow Blades)
    Is the duration of garrote on the target 8 or more seconds?
    If yes use Ambush only during your Shadow Dance.
    If not, use ambush until there is 3 seconds left of garrote, and reapply a garrote once.
    (When you use Shadow Dance, you will need to ambush as many times as you can ignoring combo points, the only thing you will pay attention to is garroteís duration)

    Step C:
    Let the juggling start:
    Is your slice and dice about to expire?
    If yes check your combo points and reapply at 1 seconds left.
    If not move on
    Is your Hemorrhage with 3 seconds or less on its duration?
    If yes, wait for it to FINISH and re apply. (Donít let your energy cap, keep using backstab until Hemorrhage finishes)
    If no move on.
    Is your Rupture about to end or gone?
    If yes, build 5 combo points with ambush/backstab and re apply.
    If no move on.

    Step D.
    Is your vanish on cool down?
    If yes. Is your preparation on cool down?
    If yes move on.
    If no check if you still have the buff: Find weakness, if yes wait until itís done to use vanish if not use it and go back to step D.
    If no use it to reapply a garrote and gain another 10 seconds of Find Weakness.

    Does the target have with 5 combo points?
    If yes Eviscerate for max.
    If not, build 5 combo points and eviscerate.
    Check the duration on the other 3 buffs/debuffs: Slice and Dice, Hemorrhage, and Rupture. if they all got 5 seconds or more keep eviscerating for max, if they are about to expire go back to Step C.

    Prepot and stealth
    Open with Garrote.
    Use Vendetta on the target
    Use shadow Blades.
    Mutilate once.
    Slice and dice.
    Mutilate to 5 combo points.
    Rupture for max duration.
    Mutilate for 5 combo points.
    Envenom for max.
    This will refresh your slice and dice.

    Is your target with 35% or less life?
    If yes start using dispatch as a combo point builder.
    If not, keep using mutilate.
    Is your blindside buff up?
    If yes use dispatch
    If not move on.
    Is your vendetta on cool down?
    If not use it.
    If yes move on.
    If your shadow blades on cool down?
    If not use it.
    If yes move on.
    Is your slice and dice 3 seconds away from finishing?
    I doubt it, but if it is, envenom with any amount of combo points.
    If not move on.
    Is your rupture 3 seconds away from finishing?
    If yes, wait till it finish and re apply with max combo points.
    If not move on.
    Do you have 5 combo points?
    If yes envenom.
    If not build 5 combo points then envenom.

    Rinse and repeat.

    The rotation for single target remains, but now you will turn on Blade flurry. And ignore rupture. Do not use Fan of knives it is a waste of energy while in combat spec.

    Sub is not an AOE spec, you are better off keeping your rotation on a single target and if there are 4 or more mobs close to you, use Crimson tempest instead of eviscerate. If there is more than 10 mobs close to you, fan of knives becomes optimal for combo point builder.

    At 2+ targets, use Fan of Knives as your primary Combo Point builder, but continue to spend combo points using the single target priority. With 3+ targets, switch to Fan of Knives + Crimson Tempest spam, but continue to maintain Slice and Dice and Rupture on your primary target.

    With Tellmewhen addon you should be able to have all of these debuffs/buffs/cool downs set up on a single bar so you can juggle without letting them drop.

    Best Pick: Shadow Focus.
    Why: All fights start with an opener, Garrote or Ambush generally, if those donít cost you much, you will have a full bar of energy to start building combo points with tons of energy. It is a dps increase over Subterfuge.

    Best Pick: Combat readiness.
    Why: This is a pretty useless tier. Combat readiness gives you an extra defensive cd. Itís just better than the other 2.

    There is no best pick here. These are all situational talents.
    I prefer Leaching poison but i have changed this talent multiple times, cheat death can be really good, and elusiveness can be really good too. This one really depends on what you are going against. Default pick would be Leaching poison.

    Best pick: Burst of Speed.
    It is so good its getting nerfed badly. Its a great skill, cheap and you can keep it up 100% of the time if needed. Some fights I will still use Shadow step but Burst of speed is insane. Cloak and dagger is good too, but end game you should not use this talent.

    Again, no best pick here, whatever is convenient for the fight your going against.
    My favorite is: Dirty Tricks. Just because they are dirty. Just kidding....
    Dirty tricks allows your blind and Gouge to become even better tools, it fits my play style, but sometimes I will switch to Pray on the Weak, which is nice for fights with stunable adds.

    Best Pick: Anticipation.
    Over here we got all good talents, Anticipation is great because it allows you to use your finishing moves with 5 combo points without wasting.
    But some fights with a little more ranged dps i will switch to Shuriken toss or a fight that needs more burst I would go with Marked for death. But Anticipation is definitely the default for all 3 specs.

    Glyph of Feint Recommended. Moderate boost to survivability.
    Glyph of Redirect Recommended. Moderate boost to DPS when switching targets.
    Glyph of Cloak of Shadows Optional. Survivability boost in fights with physical damage.
    Glyph of Evasion Optional. Small boost to survivability.
    Glyph of Expose Armor Optional. Small damage boost if no other Weakened Armor.
    Glyph of Sharp Knives Optional. Potential damage boost in AoE encounters.
    Glyph of Shiv Optional. Small survivability boost with Leeching Poison.
    Glyph of Sprint Optional. Good for high movement fights.
    Glyph of Tricks of the Trade Optional. Small personal damage boost if using on tanks.

    Glyph of Ambush Recommended. Allows you to start DPS that much sooner.
    Glyph of Feint Recommended. Moderate boost to survivability.
    Glyph of Redirect Recommended. Moderate boost to DPS when switching targets.
    Glyph of Cloak of Shadows Optional. Survivability boost in fights with physical damage.
    Glyph of Evasion Optional. Small boost to survivability.
    Glyph of Expose Armor Optional. Small damage boost if no other Weakened Armor.
    GLYPH_HEMORRAGHING_VEINS Optional. Boosts DPS when forced to use Hemorrhage.
    Glyph of Sharp Knives Optional. Potential damage boost in AoE encounters.
    Glyph of Shiv Optional. Small survivability boost with Leeching Poison.
    Glyph of Sprint Optional. Good for high movement fights.
    Glyph of Tricks of the Trade Optional. Small personal damage boost if using on tanks.

    Glyph of Vendetta Required. Overall DPS boost for Vendetta.
    Glyph of Feint Recommended. Moderate boost to survivability.
    Glyph of Redirect Recommended. Moderate boost to DPS when switching targets.
    Glyph of Cloak of Shadows Optional. Survivability boost in fights with physical damage.
    Glyph of Evasion Optional. Small boost to survivability.
    Glyph of Expose Armor Optional. Small damage boost if no other Weakened Armor.
    Glyph of Sharp Knives Optional. Potential damage boost in AoE encounters.
    Glyph of Shiv Optional. Small survivability boost with Leeching Poison.
    Glyph of Sprint Optional. Good for high movement fights.
    Glyph of Tricks of the Trade Optional. Small personal damage boost if using on tanks.

    If a rogue dies, 95% of the time itís his fault. I say that with certainty because I have not come across another class with so many tricks on its sleeve.
    The main survivability skill:
    Timed right a nicely cast vanish will save your behind so many times you will lose count. Vanish you take you out of combat, allow Sub rogues to have another 10 seconds of find weakness (100% armor reduction on the target), also will allow you to apply another garrote on the target. If you are a combat or assassination rogue, will allow you to ambush the target in the middle of combat which is a dps increase. But the highlight of the skill is that this skill will drop 100% of your agro on the target, if that is ever an issue.

    Tricks of the trade.
    Tot is a cute skill, ungliphed it will give another group member 10% damage for 10 seconds or so, which is nice. 2 rogues on a 25 man using Tot on each other on cool down will deal on average 3%-6% more damage at least. Usually if I donít have another rogue on my raid, I will cast this on my tanks constantly during the fight (Gliphed). A fight like garrosh for example tricks is very useful because it reduces the chance someone will get killed because they aggroed the mobs that will spawn over time. With this tool, no rogue out there should ever die because of agro. At the beginning of a fight during the 10 seconds dbm pull, you should be casting tricks on your main tank, and using an agility potion. Tricking your tank or another target at the beginning of a fight should be mandatory.

    Cloak of Shadows.
    The gift we received in burning crusade. I love this skill, it allow you to do so much. glyphed it becomes even better. It makes you immune to magic a certain period of time, as well as give you a lingering spell reduction effect for 5 seconds. This is especially useful when someone in the raid needs to soak up a huge amount a damage at a given point. For example on heroic protectors, if you are the target of Inferno Strike you can move away from the raid and cloak it, soaking all the 1.500.000 damage by yourself. Also useful to remove debuffs and magic effects. Super useful should be always close to your hand for quick use.

    Smoke bomb.
    Some people donít realize that Smoke bomb, aside from its amazing effect of creating a barrier against casters in pvp most of the time. Smoke bomb gives us 5 seconds of 20% damage reduction, in area. So on a boss like Thok for example, if you glyph it you will have __ seconds of 20% damage reduction for the whole raid (assuming everyone is stacked on phase 1) itís an amazing spell as well, if a caster is targeting you and casting a big bad chaos bolt 10 yards from you, you can use this spell and they will lose their target, failing to cast it. Also it will do the same if you are dpsing a target that is casting something at another target 15 yards away, if you cast this spell they will fail to cast that spell. Very useful for PVP and PVE.

    Feint is an aoe reduction spell, when you pick the right talent on T2, it becomes a 50% damage reduction to everything, and with your energy recovery rate you can cast it so often you can keep that buff on you for as long as you need. This spell also reduces your agro on the target. Itís useful and all rogues should know how to use this. Itís a cheap tool in our arsenal.

    Evasion will give you 100% Dodge chance for 10 seconds. Plain and simple. The glyph of evasion will increase its duration by 5 seconds.

    Dismantle is a disarm ability, this is useful in PVE and PVP, a lot of mobs in the current content will take disarm. You could always attempt to cast it in pve if the target is holding a weapon. Most bosses are immune to this. It lasts 8 seconds and also removes the targets shield for that time, decreasing its defense.

    Shroud of Concealment.
    Gives your party around you stealth as well, only usable in stealth. This can be useful at times.

    Blind is the rogue combat CC, it will leave the target wondering for a few seconds, its a good crowd control ability, specially good in PVP, but very useful in pve.

    Sap is also used for crowd control, only castable in stealth, there are macros out there that will allow you to cast sap on your nearest target, especially useful in PVP, but also helpful in PVE at times.

    Shiv is a tool we have against warriors and other things that enrage and disarm. If you use elvui your target will show a debuff if enraged, all you need to do is shiv them once to remove the effect. Shiv can be used when you are main hand disarmed, this is extremely useful in pvp against warriors or against certain bosses/mobs that can disarm you. You can keep attacking and generating combo points whilst disarmed.

    If you need to run faster, this is a great ability. Short cool down and very useful.

    Please if you are going to give feedback, let it be constructive, show/say what would you do differently. All feedback is apreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    If you use the default target frames they show a buff with a (very noticeable) white outline when they have a buff you can offensively dispel. This functions for every class, so shamans, hunters, priests, warriors with glyph of shield slam and DKs with glyph of icy touch will get it for magic buffs, Rogues, druids and hunters for Enrage mechanics.

    Elv isn't needed to see if you have something to dispel.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

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