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Thread: Prot war DPS issues

  1. #1
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    Prot war DPS issues

    I'm having some issues with DPS as prot warrior. I joined a team that's been together for a long time and they have geared me up from Flex gear to start heroic content so that we are ready for WoD. It's a really good raid team and I enjoy raiding with them and want to make sure I am bringing 100% to the raid. The issue I have is that the main Tank is a bear and she's an awesome tank who's been raiding with them for a long time. Her gear is a little better than mine as I still have flex gear in some slots. I would say she's about 10 - 15 ILVL higher than me but she's pulling twice my dps in some instances. I've been tanking for a long time and understand that she gets more vengeance because as her DPS slowly beats mine she gets more mobs hitting on her which in turn boosts her vengeance and her dps. I don't want to take her position on the team or anything like that but I am curious whether I am doing something wrong. If anyone has the time to look at my damage breakdown it would be appreciated. I thought that most of the damage was supposed to come from Sheild slam but devastate seems to be doing more damage proportionally than what i would expect. I've looked on line for this information but I can't find anything.

    Following a logs link to one of our last raids:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...r4j/details/4/

    Following is my armory link:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../atighe/simple

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    You don't use Shield Slam on CD. Always use shield slam on CD. on a single target fight ~35% of your total damage should be from shield slam. SHield slam is your hardest hitting ability, it generate on average the most rage of any ability in your arsenal, it enrages you, it procs Ultimatum.

    Your shield block uptime is appalling. Doesn't matter how you gear Mastery, stam, avoidance or even gods help you crit, your shield block uptime should be somewhere between 50-66% of the total fight. if something is hitting you, so pretty much every boss except Lei Shi in ToES you should be spending most of your rage on shield block. Forgoing shield block is a massive RPS loss, survivability loss and if you take glyph of heavy repercussions, as you do, a huge DPS loss.

    Stop casting Heroic Strike or Cleave if you don't have an ultimatum proc. Once again this is a massive RPS loss, survivability loss and if you take Glyph of Heavy Repercussions, as you do, a huge DPS loss. your HS hits for 38k, your SS hits for 145k. Shield Block cost 60 rage, HS cost 30 rage so you get half as many Shield blocks as you would Heroic Strikes, with the glyph SS will hit 50% harder. You will get 1 SS per shield block at minimum, (it works out to be ~5s cd on average, but we'll ignore that). 50% extra on SS is 73k, 2 heroic strikes are 74k. Doesn't work out does it? Except now you have a much higher chance to crit block which means a much higher uptime on Enrage increase all damage by 10%. and giving you 10 rage. so if we assume you have 45% avoidance after boss suppression you're going to average 1.15 crit block per shield block so 11.5 rage. so you don't actually get 2 HSs for 1 shield block you get ~1.6, so 68k for HS or 73k for Shield block.

    As you take Glyph of Hold the line, do not bother trying to balance your dodge/parry, go full parry, red sockets should be parry, blue should be parry stam, yellow should be parry dodge. unless you don't want the socket bonus in which case they should just be parry.

    Use recklessness on CD, and where possible line it up with avatar, the first time you get aggro you should have both up.

    Use Every Ultimatum. there's at least 3s between shield slams. If ultimatum procs use it right away.

    Stick River's Song on your Main hand, ~3k Dodge (which turns into crit) is better than strength (which doesn't turn into crit) but turns into ~3K AP which doesn't buff your Shield barriers. You probably sitting around 300k AP so its 1% AP gain vs a 3-5% crit gain, and a 2-4% avoidance gain.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 02-12-2014 at 07:24 PM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the advice Teng.

    I tanked Flex SoO with a mastery build and when I moved to Norm SoO and my new raid team (and avoidance) the healers were all 560 + iLvl. This has actually worked against me as I don't die often because they can keep me up through most things but now that we are in heroics I want to boost my DPS while maximising survivability. Thanks to you I will be making the life of my healers a lot easier too.

    I'm glad I posted this because I was under the impression that Sbar was better with avoidance builds than Sblock. I also thought (mistakenly) that increasing my use of the DPS abilities would increase DPS (which meant Sblock didn't get cast as a priority) but I can now see where that isn't correct. If I don't have rage to use the abilities my DPS will drop off due to lower RPS. I will have to improve my rotation. The first time I noticed there was a problem was when my Devastate damage was higher than my SB on one fight. I find myself spamming dev to get SB to refresh so that I can use it. I've found that when things get hairy on a boss fight sometimes I lose track of my rotation and I hadn't noticed that I use HS too much. I thought that I only used it when I had the Ultimatum proc.

    I used your guide religiously when I was a mastery build and mitigation and threat was the only thing that I worried about but now DPS has been raised and I strayed from the path as I adopted the avoidance build. When I changed to avoidance my DPS increased by 20K which was too much to ignore. This was the time that I found out (mistakenly) that Sbar was better than Sblock for avoidance.

    I have Recklessness bound to my shield slam and devastate which means they should be firing on cooldown as these are the abilities that I use most often.

    I've been using Askmrrobot since I started raiding in MOP and didn't realise that Glyph of hold the Line had such an impact on gearing. AMR says that I am optimised but I will take your advice and increase my parry. I have a sword that has Crit on it in my bag at the moment which Askmrrobot says is an upgrade but I need to upgrade it before I can equip it. It's the http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103972.

    Thanks for your time Teng. I will take it all on board and improve in our next raid. I appreciate the effort involved with this.

    M

  4. #4
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    You don't really want crit, you want avoidance rating as this turn into crit rating via riposte so i wouldn't equip the paragon's sword, stay with what you have. Crit builds whilst viable are far from optimal, they do tend to produce more DPS when not tanking, but on any fight where you can make sure Riposte/Vengeance don't fall off their DPS lead is destroyed, and they are a magnitude squishier. Crit builds are fine for farm content or soloing, but for progression content a Parry or Avoidance build will do Just as well and potentially allow you to drop a healer.

    Askmrrobot is probably correct if you wanted to maximise avoidance percentages, which is fine, however the reason you build avoidance over mastery is DPS, if you wanted to maximise survivability you'd go Mastery/Stam, if you're going to build for DPS you might as well build for optimising DPS, and the trade off between a full parry and balanced avoidance build is marginal. it's a little more DPS and little more squishy, but not by much.

    The problem with macroing Recklessness to shield slam is that sometimes, you'll blow Recklessness on trash and it won't back up by the time you tank the boss. some of the logs I looked at you popped it half way through a 3:30ish fight, which is because it popped on the trash before hand, so you only got one Recklessness. Ideally on a fight you'd pop it just as you pulled and then on CD (baring any "Don't/can't damage the boss now" mechanics), until you have only time for one more at which point you'd delay it to line it up with as many other offensive CDs as possible, and hopefully have it run off before the boss dies.

    On one hand i want to to tell you that having a non-perfect rotation is fine, that very few tanks will get every GCD and every proc perfect. I've only twice had encounters where at the end i can honestly say every GCD perfect. However most of the time when things are hairy for the tanks the best thing you can do is knuckle down avoid shit on the ground and concentrate on your rotation; its more DPS so the fight end sooner, its more rage so you're harder to kill.I suggest spending some time in the proving grounds, yes it's boring and tedious, but there really aren't any other challenges to tanks in Pandaria outside of raiding (or maybe soloing the celestials)and just hammer away until your rotation becomes a non-conscious thing; I've had plenty of times where i've unthinkingly popped LS and instantly thought "why the fuck did i do tha-oh! thats why" as it saves me from death. it's just practice, that whole wax on, wax off thing. The other thing is to learn the fights and reduce them to a set of things, Sha is the great example, there's the taunt swap, but other than that its little adds> Fragment>prisons>add at the back (tanks don't care about, grab a rift)> swelling pride (every third one pop a raid CD).

    THe thing with Sbar is to not think of them in terms of how you've geared but in terms of how the boss is hitting you, generally if the boss is either stopped meleeing you (like garrosh's whirling corruption) or is going twat you with a devastating unblockable attack (like nazgrim's excute). Every Single patch they've nerfed Sbar, either through it's AP coefficient or through nerfing vengeance itself. YOu have both and you should use both use both effectively (which is why the Uneneding rage glyph is nice, you can pool more rage so that if you can minimise the delay casting one will have on casting the other)
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  5. #5
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    Teng

    Just as an update and corroboration of what you advised I took on board everything that you said and my DPS has jumped by 15K. It actually meant that I was less frenetic in my approach to my rotation too which also helped me to make calmer decisions.

    When Recklessness wasn't macroed to something I found that I missed it's uptime completely. I've found out about weak aura's from one of Pally's UI vids and I am going to try that. I feel more confident that I won't miss anything if I have something there reminding me to use it. Prot Wars have sooooo many buttons and I understand that I (personally) am not a good enough player not to take some short cuts. I have a macro with the crit banner, avatar and recklessness all rolled into one to mitigate some of this loss of dps.

    I'm a firm believer in "the dance" that is a raid boss. Every encounter has it's own cadence that you learn, when to move, when to taunt, when to CD. I don't think that i have a big problem with that and i've rarely been pulled up on that by my raid leader. I strive to improve each time but the main place that I was falling down was in DPS.

    I really appreciate the advice and I'm now off to find some weak aura strings that I can learn to build from.

    M

  6. #6
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    I don't use many weak auras to to tell me something is ready. but these are my weak auras
    all warrior

    Code:
    d0dmjaGArISEQaVKkQYUejyBurfZuKqZMI5lsXnfP0Hf8nrs9yf2Pe7f2nL2VK0prIHHa1Vf6AurgkQ0GrsgUK6GiOZtLCmr8AQqlevSueAXiPwov9zK6PQwMI65snrjbtvutgrtN4IIK4QIK0LjDDu1grGCsQOSzfz7OO8rQOsFvs00ePY3PcAKurv9muKrJcJhfvxsKQUfc40kDpjH(lvQXjsu3gLgjiJhqgcEJpNceCk4CWzXjXjrg3R0B0MDvR40(iFnERMjUX1k4COKZusBkMkeugxzEDWsQKGAClpB2V00QVrjbFjXj0yQsvLbpUjgirg3hnkY4S8gzrgceiqWhiJscY4UOmn1QGcbCYjCjkbdxVo2EJwuMXf)stREKXTbwTrgLeCI6WrJ2Tv7gLzCczwqcEuycNJjgjPoimGG7vwk1QpirpE10urC(wjQSGd(GVLiRBglPIllRscbV2hP9A3C96y7nArzgFkAfCchJLuTsWuLkUETxs1oCHZqxAgckmnJBIbsKX5B19We6gCW9rJImolVrwKHabxcg1kOKKA8UwhiJ3RL2OOKGZYBKfzusahiqW5B19iYsDqah8Hj0nY49APnkELesKOZOqecoFRULGrTcOgc(u0kFDGIssco521MGRlHHJnE6RX9k9gTzx1k(oIwCYTtjE7qwMPGdEGKCLnAdg3IFPPvFJme8LeNOoC0ODB1UXD4skmqHPzCMtzAQvbfcmptW4wE2SFPPvFJscElHHJn34Af8mfUqqzgzCxuMMAvqHao5eU4xAA1JmoFRevwWb3RSuQvFqIE8QPPI42aR2iJsc(RvJPkve1jJoKnArzgpTHURs1RvJPkve1jJoKnAHGp4BjY6MXsQ4YYQKqWR9rAV2nxVo2EJwuMXNIwbNWXyjvRemvPIRx7LuTdx4m0LMHGctZ4MyGezC(wDpmHUbhCF0OiJZYBKfziqW5B1TemQva14sWOwbLKuJpmHUrgVxlTrXRKqIeDgfIqW7ADGmEVwAJIscolVrwKrjbCGabNVv3Jil1bbCGGpfTYxhOOKKGtUDTj46sy4yJN(ACVsVrB2vTIVJOfxIsWW1RJT3OfLz8LeNOoz0HG7WLuyGctZ4mNY0uRckey2PzClpB2V00QVrjbVLWWXMBCTcEMcxiOWeY4IFPPvpY482vWLGNwfC(wjQSGdUxzPuR(Ge94vttfXTbwTrgLe8ZiiI6xlDvQYm8rhIYmEf2o4zvsuycVcBh8SOKo8kSnBWkgfcoPsn)0u2vTI78jKyAjOunfXh8TezDZyjvCzzvsi41(iTx7MRxhBVrlkZ4trRGt4ySKQvcMQuX1R9sQ2HlCg6sZqqHPzCtmqImoFRUhMq3GACF0OiJZYBKfziqW5B1TemQva14sWOwbLKuJ316az8ET0gfLeCwEJSiJsc4abcoFRUhrwQdc4GpmHUrgVxlTrXRKqIeDgfI4S8gzrgVscjs0zuico4PLsX5bo4eP4Ct1ubCGabc(u0kFDGIssco521MGRlHHJnE6RX9k9gTzx1k(oIwCMtzAQvbfcm70mUeLGHRxhBVrlkZ4lj(zeer9kjUdxsHbkmnJ7IY0uRckeWjNWT8Sz)stR(gLe8wcdhBUX1k4zkCHGs6qgNC7uI3oKLzk4G7IY0uRckeWjNWf)stREKX5BLOYco4ELLsT6ds0Jxnnve3gy1gzusWpJvnKvPQYGXGYmEfu2OpywhSw6QuDgrEbfMWjOOxwHNurjD4eYS4sgSdfc(GVLiRBglPIllRscbV2hP9A3C96y7nArzgFkAfCchJLuTsWuLkUETxs1oCHZqxAgckmnJBIbsKX5B19We6gCW9rJImolVrwKHabNVv3sWOwbuJlbJAfussn(We6gz8ET0gfVscjs0zuicbVR1bY49APnkkj4S8gzrgLeWbceC(wDpISuheWbc(u0kFDGIssco521MGRlHHJnE6RX9k9gTzx1k(oIw8Le)mw1qwLQkdgdoZPmn1QGcbss5ug3HlPWafMMXT8Sz)stR(gLe8aj5kB0gmUf)stR(gzi4sucgUEDS9gTOmJ3sy4yZnUwbptHlei4mdLK0LqWqaa
    prot
    Code:
    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    environment
    Code:
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    Last edited by Tengenstein; 05-25-2014 at 03:40 PM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    600
    Nothing wrong with taking macro shortcuts, as long as they make sense (mechanically/similar or lined up cd timers) and won't leave you up shit's creak with a turd for a paddle (ie: macro'ing things to your normal rage-building rotation on bosses with a taunt swap is a terrible idea).
    Really, I don't know a lot about hunters and the only good advice I can give is: TURN PET TAUNT OFF! ~Aggathon

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    5
    Give's me an error "Error deserializing Supplied Data is not AceSerializer data (rev1)" when trying to copy/paste in /weakauras import

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,974
    Are you running weakauras2?
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    5
    Yes, 2.0.6

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,974
    Well then i assume i couldn't have been up to date when i posted them. i've reposted them now.

    EDIT: or its just how Tankspot formats it....urgh
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 05-25-2014 at 03:42 PM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    5
    Many thanks, they work now gonna put these to test.

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