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Thread: Aggathon's Rage Bar Ep 4 - "Avoiding" questions

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    I will give a more detailed response to this when I have time. But it might be a bit. My work week is ridiculous this week. The short version is: and that's why I say "well maybe..."It's a simple flowchart:Are you dying because the boss flattens you/you are under-geared? -> stam/mastery Do you have zero survivability issues and need/want more dps? -> avoidanceSurviving is always going to be the #1 tank priority though. Dead dps dp zero dps.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Surviving is always going to be the #1 tank priority though. Dead dps dp zero dps.
    Not only do dead DPS (and tanks) do zero damage, but dead tanks also usually mean multiple dead DPS

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonhemlock View Post
    Second: I am not convinced that "spikey" damage is a bad thing, unless it's killing you, spikes are fine (i.e. i've got SBar coming up, Demo Shout at the ready, I can deal). "Spikey" damage is only bad if it kills you, that's why there are still Guardian Druids running about. "Spikey" damage is only relevant as it is related to your health pool. I'd like to see some information on "ok, and this is where this boss kills you" rather than just "damn bro! That there damage is spikey!"
    Druids aren't particualrily spikey becuase they get a rather larger amount of armour than the other tanks, (and now they also get a much larger Healthpool too). Spikey druids are more likely wasting rage on maul spamming, or suck at using FR to react to hits with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonhemlock View Post
    Third: I am not convinced that your sim accurately takes into account the added rage (and hence, mitigation) that comes with an avoidance build. It very well might do that, but it was not clear in the video.
    SimC, which has nothing to do with Agg's sim and is a much, much more sophisticated tool, pretty much says the exact same tool, avoidance, even taking into account the extra rage generated (and hence extra Sblock/sbar uptimes), whilst decreasing the overall damage taken, increases the probability of you taking a fatal string of hits. Seriously go download it, play about with it, sim your own toon.

    Thing is the actual number of shield barriers up doesn't really matter. the timing of them is much more important; You really shouldn't die if have shield block up, if strings of blocks are enough to kill you toy're pretty far up a creek without a paddle. Most of the times tanks die its to a hit string either preceding or following a boss special (particularly if a boss special causes healers to move or otherwise take their eyes off a tank). That string of hits can't occur if you have Shield Block up, if shield blocks up you're pretty much clear of that event happening, you're not gonna die with shield block up, layering a barrier on top doesn't actually stop you dying any less, however making sure that you always have something in place, who cares if its sblock sbarrier does make you less spikey. much the same way putting a condom on a dildo won't lower your risk of getting pregnant, putting a condom on your boyfriend will.

    And tbf the difference in RPS between a mastery stacker and an avoidance stacker averages out to be around 2 RPS, we're only talking an extra two, maybe three barriers a minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonhemlock View Post
    Fourth: You almost seem to offhandedly discount the benefit of the additional DPS from an avoidance build. In 4 of the 6 modes currently available (LFR, flex, 10N, 25N) tank DPS is a substantial number that cannot be discounted due to your preference for what a tank "should" be. I may have misconstrued your intent here, but I came away feeling like you don't care about tank DPS and have discounted it totally.
    In LFR you could gem spirit and it wouldn't matter, the damage is so trivial for the ilvl requirements that your secondary stats don't make make a difference to your survival; The thing about tank DPS is that if upping the raid DPS really matters dropping one healer for a dps is a much larger raid DPS gain than a warrior tank switching from mastery to avoidance.

    Key point here is not that the theorycrafting is incorrect (granted it may well be), but does it apply to your raid? If the source of your wipes isn't tank death, does it really matter that the tank isn't gemming full survivability? as long as the tank doesn't die, they're gearing fine.
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

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