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Thread: Can Someon Explain Garrosh to Me?

  1. #21
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    Really the problem of a story-driven MMO, instead of a story-inclusive MMO, is the exact problems SWTOR had.

    You play through it the first time, or do an instance for a first time, and it's hella fun, the story seems personalized, good times is had by all. Second time, a little less fun, it's still cool, whatever...


    ... By the time you're on the 5th+ runthrough you're sittin' there spammin' the space bar as fast as you can hating every minute of it.
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  2. #22
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    Can Someon Explain Garrosh to Me?

    That said, what they are doing with Wrathion is pretty good even if its just a happily coincidental by product of necessary pretense for handing out welfare legendaries.

    The whole bit with BWL was good back in the day and Ony posing as an advisor to the throne(and that whole scene where Fordragon goes Chuck Norris in the throne room) I mean, everyone really wanted to go whip her lying ass.

    SWTOR bills its self as a story driven MMO and having gotten to max level on 3 toons there, I have to say it works really well but doesn't translate over to end game/large group content.

    There is a happy medium. I think garbage like the Argent Tournament turns more people off. But that said, the game has shifted to things like cross realm and LFR because they believe enough people prefer a soulless, solitary experience where the people next to them could very well be an NPC as another player. You don't need story for that.......but it would be nice.

    I like story. I enjoy having some reason for doing what I'm doing.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    There is a happy medium. I think garbage like the Argent Tournament turns more people off.
    True... sometimes I feel like people go "we like books, we want books!" and Blizzard goes "Okay, here's books!" and we end up going "No... We mean, GOOD books, we don't want books just for the sake of having books. We wanted Dickens, not 50 shades of shit."
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    Blizz bends over backwards to give the Horde the most and best developed story lines.
    .
    Typically Bad guys are proactive, they go out an do stuff, the good guys just react to what the bad guys do. I mean imagine the alliance without any bad guys to fight, what would they do? Farm? Love? Achieve great works of science, art, and spirituality? not exactly gripping storylines

    It would have made more sense if...I dunno...the Horde took a huge defeat in some big battle and Garrosh felt like he had to "turn to the dark side" to defend the Horde or something. I dunno.
    He came to Orgrimmar, the cultural capital of the Orcs and his people are starving, he got humans raiding razor hill at will, he's got Bael Modan fortress half way down his hunting ground, Org burned to the ground and Thrall pretty much said "thats odd, here garrosh take care of this shit, whilst I out on the pull, oh and by the way there's some goblin refugees and the waters now fucked" he sorts that shit out and Baine wrongfully accuses him of masscring some druids, he's got Sylvannas doing a Saddam with WMDs, had an Air fleet destroyed in the highlands and had to do a police action to get the dragonmaw on our side, He lost the battle of Ashenvale, Since coming back from Northrend a Hero He's had nearly every supposed ally turn down requests for aid, and through incompetence, treachery or plain bad luck hasn't has a successful military campaign, and I'm sure that sits real well with living up to daddy.
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  5. #25
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    I like story. I enjoy having some reason for doing what I'm doing.
    You should play through the Krasarang reputation quest-line. Pretty much every day you get a short 5-15 minute quest chain that furthers the story of the patch.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    Story wise, Blizz's big problem is the development of new characters, in quick time period. They only have so much lore to work with before they run out of rounded characters to fill out an evolving story. They are trying to add new blood to make new lore, but it's tough to do it in a game who's life cycle is expansion, 4 patches and expansion - really only 5 story segments to build up a character before they hit next expansion.

    They sort of screwed the pooch on character develop in Cata - MoP added new characters - Cata was an expansion that saw Garrosh go from wimp to tyrant but we don't know why; personally, I think Garrosh should have had another expansion to develop. Maybe in Cata he gets his feet wet being a dick, then in MoP he perfects it to the point that in the next expansion he's taken out.
    True but not impossible. Wrathion was introduced in Cataclysm and I personally think he's a very well developed character. A black dragon, untainted who only wants to suit his own interest which seems to be nothing more then self preservation. He'll do anything he must to attain such goals. He needed his father (or flight leader) killed as well as all his other relatives to ensure his survival. In MoP his goal was to somehow unite the races of Azeroth in order to fend of an impending threat (believed to be the Legion) all for his own well being, or perhaps because he still has the blood of the Earth Warden in his veins.

    Garrosh has been in 4 expansions and his developement is just stupid. TBC - A wimp, Wrath - hot headed Alliance hating douche with lack of a reason for it not being a war vetaran in Azeroth. Cataclysm - Warchief, Blizzard seemed to try and instill some likeable traits into him. MoP - Blizzard goes gg this character can't be fixed everyone hates him lets just let everyone kill him. I mean hell we all loved Illidian and they made us kill him.

    Garrosh has shown to absolutely no motive for his irrational behavior throughout the years besides having daddy issues or my theory of him behaving as how a simple Draenor orc would behave. Also Tengenstein's comments make a alot of sense also but should have been touched on far better.

    As of now Garrosh just seems like a villian from those cartoons we used to watch as kids, he's just a bad guy because he is, while most villians have depth, motive and reason for why they are the way they are.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    As of now Garrosh just seems like a villian from those cartoons we used to watch as kids, he's just a bad guy because he is, while most villians have depth, motive and reason for why they are the way they are.
    I guess it's like I tell my kids "some people are just assholes, they can't help themselves" or in this case "orcs".

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  9. #29
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    I was able to see the Darkspear Rebellion from the Horde side and the story is really good. I didn't expect to see Thrall back, but what I don't get is he has to be careful going back into Orgrimar to find Ettig and Surfang, but isn't Thrall an Aspect now? Shouldn't he be abe to one shot Garrosh?

    Also, he does have a son - so Aggra as regent for Thrall's son who will become Warchief one day.

  10. #30
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    In the ending cinematic of Dragon Soul/Cataclysm, Alexstrasza states explicitly that the power of the aspects is expended, she hints heavily that the Dragon Aspects are now mortal, and that the age of Mortals has begun. This also being the reason that the infinite Dragonflight exists. and why Murozond the Aspect of time is merely a 5 man boss.
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  11. #31
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    Vol'jinn a Troll as Warchief. Varian again wusses out. Jaina reminds me of Patton at the end of WWII when he wants to take it to the Russians - we have the forces in place lets end it now, but no; king no balls walks away. The Alliance should have sacked Orgrimar, enslaved its inhabitants and sown salt into the land. Those that would not enter slavery should have been put to the sword. But no, he just gives it back. And Garrosh getting a Panda trial; like he's not going to escape whatever prison he's put in.

  12. #32
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    Taran Zhu: "our people have suffered more than ANYBODY else".

    No. The way of the Horde is to execute traitors. Not lock them in a cage we all know will not work, because Y'Shaaj will break Garrosh out, setting up a Halion-esque mini raid for 5.5 segwaying into the storyline of the new expansion.

  13. #33
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    They didn't suffer more than Theramore; plus how much suffering was it really, I mean the Pandarian were the slaves of the Mogu for thousands of years, Garrosh was annoying for what? A year.

  14. #34
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    um, most of Theramore was instantly destroyed, that's not really suffering.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    um, most of Theramore was instantly destroyed, that's not really suffering.
    I don't know, I'm sure it was painful in that instant before death being fried by a mana bomb and the suffering of those that surrived and those who lost loved ones; the Alliance deserves its pound of flesh. But again Blizz let's the Horde be barbarians, do whatever they want and suffer no lasting consequences.

  16. #36
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    Someone's rather salty about the Alliance. Varian does the diplomatic thing that a real leader is supposed to do, and you're on his ass about it. He's the first real leader the Alliance has had that thinks properly and not like Admiral Proudmoore who just blindly killed/hated on the Horde.

    Yeah go for it, ransack the Horde and hate on them for what Garrosh did. We'll be sure to help you save the world for the 5th time again next time.

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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    I don't know, I'm sure it was painful in that instant before death being fried by a mana bomb and the suffering of those that surrived and those who lost loved ones; the Alliance deserves its pound of flesh. But again Blizz let's the Horde be barbarians, do whatever they want and suffer no lasting consequences.
    Well we are the good guys.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    Someone's rather salty about the Alliance. Varian does the diplomatic thing that a real leader is supposed to do, and you're on his ass about it. He's the first real leader the Alliance has had that thinks properly and not like Admiral Proudmoore who just blindly killed/hated on the Horde.

    Yeah go for it, ransack the Horde and hate on them for what Garrosh did. We'll be sure to help you save the world for the 5th time again next time.
    It should be World of Appeasementcraft - here the Alliance has their foot on the throat of their enemies, they've broken into thier capital, they have a massive fighting force assembled, they have the perfect chance to fracture and destroy the invaders once and for all and what do they do - "oh, here let me give you back your city." I don't see Vol'jinn saying, "you know what, for your help and to make ammends we're pulling back from Ashenville." (Although the video of the Horde side of the conversation wasn't working on MMO Champion this morning so I don't know what Thrall and Vol'jinn were plotting) Varian sold out the Night Elves; and sold out Jania. He got nothing, nada, zip for risking Alliance blood and treasure to help the Horde cure Thralls mistake. I think a real leader would have won some concession or received something tangible for the effort.

    Instead he makes some lame statement about the Horde better be good this time or we'll destroy you and we really, really, mean it this time. How seriously can the Horde take that threat, when Varian just walks away from what could have been a decisive victory.

    It just seems the Horde gets to crap on the Alliance as much as they want, and the Alliance nevers hits back. You have the undead at the Wrath's Gate murdering Alliance forces, you have Garrosh destroying Theramore, you have him taking Ashenville and the Alliance never does crap. It just seems like the Alliance are supplicants and it will only get worse when Anduian takes over. Might as well just give 'em Stormwind now.

    As for Horde help saving the world, pfft, Alliance didn't need help from the Horde, we just let them tag along.

  19. #39
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    It would be a slaughter, Varian has no healers, and the neutral parties, Taran Zhu, Anduin aren't going to let Varian and Jaina just kill the Horde leaders out of hand. You kill Lor'themar you get an even more anti-horde belf leader, now with a vengeance agenda, you can't kill the Dark Lady, the Goblins would possibly be even more of a force as you've taken out a weak leader replaced it with Boss Mida, YOu kill Thrall you are going to turn every orc into another Garrosh. The only reason the Alliance is in Orgrimmar is becuase you have the support of five of the six Horde races, tag along? yeah if that was the case you could have wiped them out a long time ago. This isn't the alliance beating the horde, this is the alliance and the horde beating the shit out most of the orcs. and whilst Orgrimmar is the political capital of the Horde its the least defensible of the horde cities, it relies on Thunderbluff for food and water.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 09-12-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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  20. #40
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    Goblins are in it for the gold, they can be bought; Dark Lady we'll deal with her later, Baine, like Anduin, doesn't have a pair he'll fall into place on any peace terms you give him; the Trolls are useless without Vol'jinn and you do want an anti-horde leader of the belfs, it splinters their alliance.

    I'm sorry but the Alliance once again gets a raw deal for the story, we lose a city, we lose land, we invade the enemy capitol and walk way with our tail between our legs. Can't wait for the next x-pac, can't wait to see what the Horde gets to get away with.

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