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Thread: Can Someon Explain Garrosh to Me?

  1. #1
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    Can Someon Explain Garrosh to Me?

    I mean seriously he has to be one of the worst developed characters I've ever seen. Pretty much he starts off as a whimp in Nagrand ashamed of his fathers mistakes and fearing the mantle of leadership because he may repeat them. Thrall has a word with the son of his late friend and Garrosh gets his confidence!

    However he randomly transitions into a hot headed, unreasonable racist. Varian like Garrosh is another WoW original absent from WC3, but he is an awesome character, he can been seen as a Horde hating prick at first but then you think back. His father was murdered by an orc he trusted, his city burned down by the old Horde and finally his adoptive father figure Lothar was later killed by an Orc. He has every reason to hate them.
    What is Garrosh's reason to hate the Alliance? He literally has none unless I'm missing something. In Cataclysm Blizzard tried to add depth to Garrosh's character, not really wanting to become Warchief, having a sense of honor and being infuriated how at he killed Cairne in an unfair duel. He took much of what Saurfang taught him in Northrend and tried to apply it, but overall still a jackass. Insulting the ever loyal Darkspear Leader and come on, you don't fall the Forsaken Banshee Queen a female dog. Clearly lacking in the political and public relation skills.

    It seems Blizzard realized this and just said "Yea we screwed up, there is no fixing him so lets just kill him off" However instead of allowing him to redeem himself in self sacrifice they turn him into the final boss. Smart choice in a sense of pleasing players because come on...we all want to kill Garrosh. No one likes him.

    The core of Garrosh's character overall seems to lead up to his father and repeating his mistakes. Now I never played WC3, but I am a lore nerd. From what I know Grom wasn't a blindly arrogant hot head. I'm sure he wasn't as level headed as the human raised Thrall though. Grom's mistake was drinking the blood of Mannorath and cursing his people. The thing is....it was either drink the blood or get torn to shreds by the orc hating Cenarius who wasn't up for negotations.
    He made a choice to save his group.
    Garrosh lacks this, while he is motivated to keep the Horde strong for their survival he lacks the threat of what plagued other tragic heroes such as Arthas and the Scourge or Kael'thas and his people's magic addiction.

    Overall this guy is just a shame and Grom's legacy deserved better. Unless I'm missing something.
    Last edited by Kahmal; 08-17-2013 at 01:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    More or less nailed it.
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  3. #3
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    He's not meant to be a tragic hero, he's meant to be a dick. When Garrosh first comes to Orgrimmar, he see's Thrall's putting his people through a 40 years in the desert type thing to atone for the first war, which he doesn't think is all that great being that he thinks the orcs where just doing what they needed to to survive (like you say drink the blood or get shredded by a demi-god) and that not all the orcs alive at present where really around during the First war. Furthermore he's got Proudmoore's Navy raiding Razorhill, Dwarves and Humans keep contesting the orcs rulership of the barrens, and the Nelfs keep attacking the lumber from Ashenvale (which he viewed as a much better palce to settle the orcs), he also resents that Thrall's dealing with the threats to the other horde races whilst he lets the orcs languish in the desert, where they have to rely on others to provide food.

    He's pissed that his people are pretty much still refugees.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    He's not meant to be a tragic hero, he's meant to be a dick. When Garrosh first comes to Orgrimmar, he see's Thrall's putting his people through a 40 years in the desert type thing to atone for the first war, which he doesn't think is all that great being that he thinks the orcs where just doing what they needed to to survive (like you say drink the blood or get shredded by a demi-god) and that not all the orcs alive at present where really around during the First war. Furthermore he's got Proudmoore's Navy raiding Razorhill, Dwarves and Humans keep contesting the orcs rulership of the barrens, and the Nelfs keep attacking the lumber from Ashenvale (which he viewed as a much better palce to settle the orcs), he also resents that Thrall's dealing with the threats to the other horde races whilst he lets the orcs languish in the desert, where they have to rely on others to provide food.

    He's pissed that his people are pretty much still refugees.
    Yes this goes well with a theory I once read before he was even Warchief. That Garrosh is just simply an Orc just an extremely proud and arrogant one. The Orcs of Azeroth between knowing of the atrocities they commited in the previous wars and Thrall's political ways have become very civil.

    Garrosh is an orc hailing for their homeland, therefore behaves how a natural orc should, if you have a dispute with someone just bash it over the head until it cries uncle...or dies. Politics aren't the Orc way. Which means Garrosh isn't exactly racist but simply if your not with him then your a threat to his and his people's survival.

    The only problem with this theory however is it would make Thrall quite possibly the biggest dimwit in the entire history of Warcraft. Knowing the core of Garrosh's personality you still make him leader someone whose only been on Azeroth for about 3 years at the time and whose nature disregards strategic maneuvering or politics. (Hell theory or not Thrall is an idiot for that regardless)

  5. #5
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    Can Someon Explain Garrosh to Me?

    I play alliance side for the most part so I've only picked up much of the story second hand and I agree, Garrosh's story is rather disjointed and contradictory. I do like the fact they made him an authentic villain and not the previously mentioned tragic hero. Crap, they even left some Vader like good in Arthas ffs.

    That said, his motivations are a little unclear and circumstances escalated extremely quickly.

    Garroshs gets died of death by some Euro super guild and the. Everyone se down to LFR dregs. Who's the next warchief?

    My money is on Vol'Jin with Thrall's stamp of approval.
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

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    Could just as easily be Baine ... he's the most humble of the lot. That said they've also included Lor'themar a lot though he would probably be too antagonistic and for the same reason Sylvannas is out. And Gallywix might as well just not exist. That said remember if they replace the warchief with a non-orc then the orcs themselves need a new racial leader which could be interesting. Of course this all could become ultra lame if Thrall sighs and becomes leader again ... though that would make the Deux-Ex of Garrosh the bad-guy even more transparent.
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  7. #7
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    My only issue with Baine is timeline....he's not been around very long, or at least in a prominent position. Old man Saurfang is an honorable Orc and a total badass. He has credability and strength but well, he's old. Sylvannas has too many skeletons(literally) in her closet....too much distrust. Not a blood elf. Just no.
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

  8. #8
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    How could it NOT be Vol'Jin?
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  9. #9
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    Lor'themar's been pretty badass of late. TBH my choice for warchief would have been Nazgrim, except we're gonna kill him next patch, Warlord Zaela is still about though she's siding with Garrosh, I think recalling Nazgrel for Outland is more likely than Saurfang from Northrend, not likely. Eitrigg is joining us in ousting Garrosh. It all rahter murky if you discount Vol'jin as being too obvious.

    Personally, I reckon Sylvannas should turn up with a resurrected Dranosh in tow.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Personally, I reckon Sylvannas should turn up with a resurrected Dranosh in tow.
    And get killed by Varok Saurfang for her troubles? She isn't that stupid.

  11. #11
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    She's got four Val'kyr left.
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  12. #12
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    I think it's pretty clearly gonna be Vol'Jin ... but we're all theorycrafting about the darkhorse here. Maybe Rexxar will come back to us!! I miss having to find that dude wandering the earth for the keying questline in Vanilla ... talk about content that made the world feel like a world. How long has it been since we've had a fairly important quest giver who wasn't stationary as a tree?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by feralminded View Post
    How long has it been since we've had a fairly important quest giver who wasn't stationary as a tree?
    Idk, Wrathion seems to like to pace around a lot when he talks... =P
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  14. #14
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    So new Warchief aside, no one can actually think of why Garrosh is a douche that ended up going bad crazy turning into a final xpac boss with seemingly little motive?

    I mean I thought Blizzard failed with Illidians lore making us kill him as if he was a super villian when he was more of an anti-hero that we honestly could have allied with.

  15. #15
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    Daddy issues ... it's what makes the majority of super villains. =)

    If you're looking for story (at least one you get to explore while playing), this isn't the game for it and never has been. Why should that change now?
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by feralminded View Post
    Of course this all could become ultra lame if Thrall sighs and becomes leader again ....
    No, no, no just no - there's no way the Horde can have an Aspect as their leader, that would just be Blizz showing more Horde favoritism and further dissing the Alliance. Blizz bends over backwards to give the Horde the most and best developed story lines.

    I sort of agree with Agg, about Vol'jin, but maybe it will be Vol'jin who installs the new Warchief - and wasn't Vol'jin close with Caine, so I could see Baine; level headed and diplomatic. Surfang the elder would be a good choice but isn't he bit out of sorts as a result of his son's death in WoLK.

    That said, I'm putting money on Aggra (or whatever Thrall's life mate's name is) as Regent until their kid becomes of age.
    Last edited by Theotherone; 08-22-2013 at 01:10 PM.

  17. #17
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    Its an interesting angle for maybe time to fast-forward? I would love to add some grizzled old grey to my druid ... would be pretty awesome to see the wow storyline fast forward a generation at this point. I know they are "sorta" growing up Anduin but still ... they could do a lot with this if they cared to.
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  18. #18
    It would have made more sense if...I dunno...the Horde took a huge defeat in some big battle and Garrosh felt like he had to "turn to the dark side" to defend the Horde or something. I dunno.

    As it is in the storyline, it already seemed like the Horde was meeting with success on all fronts, so a sudden, "Well, better ally myself with some Old God heart and go insane...just because, ya know?" seems really weird.

    Weird, and typical for Blizzard.

  19. #19
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    Story wise, Blizz's big problem is the development of new characters, in quick time period. They only have so much lore to work with before they run out of rounded characters to fill out an evolving story. They are trying to add new blood to make new lore, but it's tough to do it in a game who's life cycle is expansion, 4 patches and expansion - really only 5 story segments to build up a character before they hit next expansion.

    They sort of screwed the pooch on character develop in Cata - MoP added new characters - Cata was an expansion that saw Garrosh go from wimp to tyrant but we don't know why; personally, I think Garrosh should have had another expansion to develop. Maybe in Cata he gets his feet wet being a dick, then in MoP he perfects it to the point that in the next expansion he's taken out.

  20. #20
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    If they were smart about it (and at all focused on it) they could use each patch to progress the story. But story has never and (rightfully) will never be the point of this game ... it's all about the new content and the story is dressing layered on top. I would LOVE for a story-driven MMO but the issue is often times content and story just don't properly align. Take for instance raid bosses (or even world/dungeon bosses). Trying to come up with compelling story for all of them is a daunting, though not impossible task. I do remember vanilla where a non-trivial percentage of the dungeons had lead-up quest lines that introduced the idea of the dungeon and whatnot and maybe the antagonists. Now all you get, at best, is some boss emotes that give you a fragment of context. In the end when push comes to shove blizzard is going to give us more 5 mans and/or raids instead of better detailed content. We want more, faster, and one of the prices of that is of course less detail/relevance/story.
    RIP Stormrage Horde ('05 - '11). Turaylon Horde since 11/11 where there's actually people
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