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Thread: Increasing DpS as Protection Warrior

  1. #1
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    Increasing DpS as Protection Warrior

    Hey brothers,

    I wanted to start a little discussion about possible ways to increase DpS while tanking as a protection warrior.
    Since there a way more than enough guides in the www showing the proper skill priorities and gearing for survival, this should be a place for talking about sacrificing survival for DpS for DpS race fights, boring farm bosses and trash.

    Since my healers told me numerous times now that my survival is more than fine for all NM bosses (2/13HM now), I tried to figure out which options I had for trading some survival for DpS. But the plan is not to go for full offenisve gear, but to swich just some significant items for a reasonable trade off.

    Since Hit and Expertise are capped anyway, Crit and Haste are the only stats that increase DpS and unfortunately warriors have to wait for 5.4 to get some defensive bonus from an offensive stat (crit). Strength is always a DpS increase and offers a defensive bonus, but the contribution of attack power diminishes with high amounts of vengeance.

    The first obvious possibility is to switch the legendary meta. The DpS meta does substantial damage, since it appears to scale with vengeace. But progressing on some hard hitting HMs, I still want to have my defensive meta (even if unreliable). So best option is to have a spare helm in the bags for the DpS meta. This is seems to be the best trade of for DpS.

    Now things start to become less obvious:
    Historically Tanks swapped trinkets for DpS trinkets first, if the wanted to increase DpS. This is what I considered next. All relevant DpS trinkets have either static strength on them and some procc or a strength procc and strength, while always being a dps gain, should be outscaled by crit.
    Unfortunately I was unable to make simcraft give me a dps breakdown by stats, because Iīm in tank spec, maybe someone with better simcraft experience could do some research?

    So this leaves me with the impression that the not strength portion of the trinkets is much more important than the strength portion. Considering this only 3 current trinkets are relevant:

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=94529 Gaze of the Twins
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=94519 Primordius Talisman
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=94526 Spark of the Zandalar

    Gaze of the Twins:
    A passive strength bonus and a crit procc. While I think a crit procc could be exactly what I was looking for, it only proccs on crits which I do not have much of. So Iīm worrying about the uptime. Unfortunatly I do not have this trinket, so I have no way to track its uptime as prot. Can someone comment on this?

    Primordius Talisman:
    Passive crit and a strength procc. While the procc is not even impressing me as a fury, this will be even worse as a tank. The passive Crit is about 2.4%, so a nice dps boost. The question is, if this is still a reasonable trade of compared to a nontrinket swap?

    Spark of the Zandalar
    Passive haste and a strength procc. Haste does nothing but increasing the frequency of white hits. This should be the weakest option of those three, but I have nodata to show that, just a gut feeling.


    Swapping nontrinket Slots:
    Trinkets appeared to be a reasonably way to improve dps, particularly since all 522 tanking trinkets are quite unimpressing. But is the DpS gain really worth the swap?
    The other way would be switching some armor pieces. Since strength, stamina and armor are identical anyway, the rating stats are the only thing to consider.
    The t15 legs for example offer a big amount of mastery and over 1000 crit with the option so socket even more crit. I would actually consider this a more reasonable trade of than one of the trinkets. And this gets even more interesting with the 2t15 Bonus (for example with hands or shoulders which could also be used for tanking). Enrage proccs on auto attacks are a nice addition to DpS and even offer some survivability.

    I am quite unsure which path to follow and again for purposes of a discussion in the right direction:

    I do not wish to just focus on tank DpS and I am not talking about talents or rotation. Just reasonable gear swap options.

    I am excited for your suggestions
    Ako

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    I found myself with the same issue while raiding 10 man HC.

    Since for me the survivability was not an issue I started to maintain two gear sets.

    One stamina oriented and another "dps" set with crit reforge and gems. Also started to roll on crit plate gear. Noticed a huge damage boost without significant survivability loss.

    Still imho it is not the optimal way to gear in progression time. So decided to reroll my monk to help my raid with damade done.

  3. #3
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    Honestly. Stand in the green pools oh Ji-kun at every opportunity, Stand in rock fall, stand in Frost orbs/sand traps/poison pools on horridon, Sit down to force the boss to crit you. Sounds aweful doesn't it. However one caveat we find it a greater raid DPS boost to drop the number of healers or tanks than change how the tanks are gearing, 1 tank every fight you can 1 tank, because that 1 tank end up with higher vengeance, and the other tank should pull higher deeps in a DPS spec, if you can't solo tank it drop healers, especially if you have a Fistweaver or Disco priest who can solo Heal. A 7DPS setup in 10 man is going to be a significant bosst over a 6DPS raid comp.

    Trinket wise On my toon I'm simming the Largest DPS increase Being about Talisman @ 4.5%, followed by Gaze @ 3.6%, and lastly Spark @2.8%. Stat weightings wise hit=exp>>>Crit>strength>>Haste>mastery with the other stats being neglible DPS increases.

    I doubt the DPS T15 2pc bonus is particularly great, Mainly as it has a default RPPM of 1 for prot and with a high mastery your enrage uptime is pretty high anyway, so a random Enrage proc on average every ~55 seconds is probably going to be clipped, whilst not having a very significant increase in Enrage uptime.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  4. #4
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    Hmright, cheesing with vengeance is an obvious one. Didnīt think about that, but my reflexes donīt like me to get used to "wrong gameplay" like standing in the fire. But probably youīre right.

    Regarding the 2t15: Yeah, forgot the low ppm for prot. A shame that we donīt stack haste like the shiny ones.

    Our healers are already 2 healing all NMs.

    I think I will start switching helms and metagems and play around with the talisman. Could still be less than I wanted, but itīs a start. From there armor pieces will probably be the next thing.

  5. #5
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    1 heal NMs
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  6. #6
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    Honestly vengeance cheese is the way to up your DPS. Our MT (who is a paladin) stands in every single thing he can and honestly our raid does better because of it. I know its not quite the same for warriors (more vengeance for him = more healing for us, it's stupid), but that's how you do it. When I tank on the druid I too stand in every puddle I can survive and sit down when pulling a boss like horridon (standing in his cone is also a nice bumb in vengeance). If you are OT it's also again a solid idea to stand in stuff and keep the vengeance up high.
    RIP Stormrage Horde ('05 - '11). Turaylon Horde since 11/11 where there's actually people
    GM of Neolutum (always recruiting, PM me)

  7. #7
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    As an OT Prot Warrior: Intervene the other tank when you have no Vengeance up. Because of how the mechanics for initial pulls are built, intervening without a Vengeance buff = you gain far more AP than the other tank loses.

    For trinkets: Talisman > Gaze >Spark, simply because crit rating > strength > haste
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  8. #8
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    As a healer, vengence cheesing tanks who know what their limits are are fine, but a fair amount just become mana sponges. Would rather 2 heal and let dps do their job.

  9. #9
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    Yeah, Intervene for vengeance is what Iīm already doing. But it requires good timing to not accidently get hit by an attack that delivers the tank swap mechanic. For example on Ji-Kun you can intervene the talon rake and therefore get the stack and a really big hit and a refreshed stack. Same with the impale from Qon and a hand ful of others. Once you know how to and when, you can get a lot vengeance from that and even an enrage if you pop SB before.

    I think I will talk to my healers about vengeance cheesing, because it can unindendedly let you eat more damage than you intended to and this more spiky like trading in some offgear which lets you take additional damage more sustained.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    As a healer, vengence cheesing tanks who know what their limits are are fine, but a fair amount just become mana sponges. Would rather 2 heal and let dps do their job.
    We 2 heal everything (though the paladin MT is like 2/3rd of another healer, it's dumb) and the tanks are always doing what they must to get more vengeance and up the DPS. On heroics it's just how you do things and the responsibility is on the tanks to know how to do it *right*. Truth is if your healers are ending a fight without draining all their mana and using all their mana CDs then it should usually be fine for the tanks to cheese more DPS. I mean that's at a high level, at the lower level I can only speak about tanking horridon heroic but I know depending on the door I am either going survival or DPS/vengeance (as a druid tank I have to choose, unlike the lame paladins) ... and it makes a big difference. I go all-out DPS for the first two doors (and literally stand in double swipe and taunt horridon between doors to build up some vengeance even though the paladin can solo tank the whole time), then go all-out survival for the last two (since they hit harder and there's MS debuffs and I have to hold 3 warbears for a good 45 seconds).
    RIP Stormrage Horde ('05 - '11). Turaylon Horde since 11/11 where there's actually people
    GM of Neolutum (always recruiting, PM me)

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