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Thread: "Best" tank class - coming back from a few years off

  1. #21
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    I think a discussion of what is 'best' is fairly daft. I think that point was made very early in this thread. I am pretty confident that every boss in the game has been tanked by every tank-class in the game, that every tank class can point to some bosses where there are particular class-specific tricks they can use to gain an advantage, and that even if a single class were manifestly 'better' than the others, that the cycle of buffs and nerfs would level that imbalance soon enough.

    What could be more helpful to players considering which tank class to pick is how the classes differ in play style.

    For example, if I compare the 2 classes I play - death knights have a much more involved active mitigation system than warriors. Warriors feel somewhat rotational in active mitigation, with the skill coming in the timing and selection of shield block / barrier. Death knights have a lot of minor survival cooldowns and you'll need to press quite a lot of buttons to get the most out of your performance and you'll also need to pay close attention to your incoming damage to get the most out of death strike, but the basics (mash death strike, rune strike and blood boil) will get you through a lot of easy content. Warriors have less survival buttons but have an awful lot of extra tricks (particularly with things like banners, stuns, mobility) that an experienced player can exploit to do awesome stuff.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    Don't think any of the removable debuffs can only be cleared by Divine Shield.
    All of them are. I solo clear my stacks on Horridon for example with a BoP/Divine Shield rotation, no external needed. The same is true of the Durumu and Iron Qon tank debuffs. I haven't tried to do it on Ji-Kun that I remember, but based on a hunch I can't clear those stacks, I could be wrong.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregasaurous View Post
    All of them are. I solo clear my stacks on Horridon for example with a BoP/Divine Shield rotation, no external needed. The same is true of the Durumu and Iron Qon tank debuffs. I haven't tried to do it on Ji-Kun that I remember, but based on a hunch I can't clear those stacks, I could be wrong.
    I think you misunderstand me. I meant that all of them that can be removed and whose removal would allow for removing a tank from the fight can be removed using Hand of Protection and that there are none of those that can be cleared using Divine Shield and not Hand of Protection.

  4. #24
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    In 25 man where you may have 3 or 4 paladins that's true, but in our 10 man raid we only have 1 holy pally and the cooldown on bop is too long to still 1 tank it but if you can bop and bubble then that's only 1 and removing a tank in 10 man and adding a dps is significantly more OP than in 25s (just by raw percentages)
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  5. #25
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    Which then makes Clemency the defacto talent choice for any paladin in a 10 man cheesing raid. Which is just another talent in the long list of rediculously unbalanced pally talents are.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 06-10-2013 at 08:30 AM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    In 25 man where you may have 3 or 4 paladins that's true, but in our 10 man raid we only have 1 holy pally and the cooldown on bop is too long to still 1 tank it but if you can bop and bubble then that's only 1 and removing a tank in 10 man and adding a dps is significantly more OP than in 25s (just by raw percentages)
    Wrong, our DK is constantly on horridon and many times it happens that I (paladin tank) reset his stats alone, when we sit our paladin healer for that fight. Also, we killed Durumu Heroic easily with only me resetting his stacks and Iron Qon, again, without our holy paladin.

    Those are basically the only fights were "resetting a debuff with HoP" allows you to drop a tank, or not tankswitch. If your paladin specs clemency and 2 BoPs are not enough for your tank, then sorry but your tank needs to improve.

  7. #27
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    So, as the OP can now see. His question has derailed into a debate on if paladins are overpowered or not. Quite a shift from the normal reaction of trying to sell your own class. If this does not answer his question on what the best tank is, I am not sure what will.

    The differences are small in the grand scheeme of things and bring the player still stands. Tank balance is not at the Warrior or bust level of Vanilla/BC and it is not at the DK cooldown or Adent Defender 2.0 level of Wrath.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Gnome View Post
    So, as the OP can now see. His question has derailed into a debate on if paladins are overpowered or not. Quite a shift from the normal reaction of trying to sell your own class. If this does not answer his question on what the best tank is, I am not sure what will.

    The differences are small in the grand scheeme of things and bring the player still stands. Tank balance is not at the Warrior or bust level of Vanilla/BC and it is not at the DK cooldown or Adent Defender 2.0 level of Wrath.
    Yep - this is exactly what I was looking for.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valaras View Post
    Wrong, our DK is constantly on horridon and many times it happens that I (paladin tank) reset his stats alone, when we sit our paladin healer for that fight. Also, we killed Durumu Heroic easily with only me resetting his stacks and Iron Qon, again, without our holy paladin.

    Those are basically the only fights were "resetting a debuff with HoP" allows you to drop a tank, or not tankswitch. If your paladin specs clemency and 2 BoPs are not enough for your tank, then sorry but your tank needs to improve.
    How is that possible? HoP is a 5 minute cooldown, you can't drop a tank with just 1 debuff remove. They can tank longer sure, but unless you're waaaay over gearing the fight you can't take 5 minutes of those debuffs. They can tank longer sure, but I'm talking about 100% dropping a tank and adding a raw dps. Maybe DKs can remove some of the debuffs with AMS or something, but right now raw boss mechanics and math say it's not possible to single tank without a paladin tank. (or several paladins that you probably won't find in a 10 man raid).
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    How is that possible? HoP is a 5 minute cooldown, you can't drop a tank with just 1 debuff remove. They can tank longer sure, but unless you're waaaay over gearing the fight you can't take 5 minutes of those debuffs. They can tank longer sure, but I'm talking about 100% dropping a tank and adding a raw dps. Maybe DKs can remove some of the debuffs with AMS or something, but right now raw boss mechanics and math say it's not possible to single tank without a paladin tank. (or several paladins that you probably won't find in a 10 man raid).
    Every paladin can spec in to being able to cast 2 BoPs, or any other "Hand spells" and each of them has a separate 5 minute cooldown. So basically by the time you need to cast for the second time, you are good to go.

  11. #31
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    but it's not a 2.5 minute gap, once you use both you have to wait 5 minutes until you can double HoP again. Seems like on Horridon you'd die during or shortly after the 3rd gate.

    Even if it was split exactly at 2.5 minutes, that seems longer than horridon requires, isn't the taunt rotation at roughly 1:15?
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    but it's not a 2.5 minute gap, once you use both you have to wait 5 minutes until you can double HoP again. Seems like on Horridon you'd die during or shortly after the 3rd gate.

    Even if it was split exactly at 2.5 minutes, that seems longer than horridon requires, isn't the taunt rotation at roughly 1:15?
    We killed Horridon HC in the first week with like 513 average guild ilvl and our DK tank could still survive. I have done the same too, as protection paladin, I assume monk can do it easily as well, not so sure on warrior and druid.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    Paladins are the best tanks out there and I don't care what Tengenstein says!

    But seriously, tank balance is close enough to just choose your favourite play-style and stick with it. Except monks, they're totally overpowered and need nerfing.
    DK's are the best the rest are a bunch of avoidance wusses or sissies who hide behind shields.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    I think you misunderstand me. I meant that all of them that can be removed and whose removal would allow for removing a tank from the fight can be removed using Hand of Protection and that there are none of those that can be cleared using Divine Shield and not Hand of Protection.
    I believe that the debuff in phase 2 of normal mode twins is only clear-able by Divine Shield, as well as the tank Debuff at the end of Lei Shen. If i recall correctly BoP is technically only useable on "physical" damage and therefor wouldn't work on a magic effect. But those are beside the point I think since there are other mechanics on those fights that would make solo-tanking unadvised for the majority of groups.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregasaurous View Post
    I believe that the debuff in phase 2 of normal mode twins is only clear-able by Divine Shield, as well as the tank Debuff at the end of Lei Shen. If i recall correctly BoP is technically only useable on "physical" damage and therefor wouldn't work on a magic effect. But those are beside the point I think since there are other mechanics on those fights that would make solo-tanking unadvised for the majority of groups.
    Those are indeed besides the point, since you cannot reset those stacks fast enough for it to be solo tankable.

  16. #36
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    If most of the source of prot paladin op talk is the erase of tanking debuff using divine shield or hand of protection, then how about adding warlock's demonic gate debuff - full threat drop ability during forberance??

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KR_Maintanker View Post
    If most of the source of prot paladin op talk is the erase of tanking debuff using divine shield or hand of protection, then how about adding warlock's demonic gate debuff - full threat drop ability during forberance??
    Lay on Hands also applies Forbearance.

    Another solution is just to get a holy or retribution paladin...

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