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Thread: PST - Episode 123

  1. #1

    PST - Episode 123



    This week:
    0:17 - Did Exorsus release their Ra-den kill video too early?
    6:42 - Should players be able to earn skills from questing?
    10:55 - Should Hit just be replaced with Spirit for everyone?
    17:59 - How much has LFD/LFR affected the game socially?
    23:51 - Should there be an easier way for 10-man groups to gain important buffs?
    30:56 - Can healers and DPS ever really be interchangeable in small group content?
    35:17 - If Warlock tanking is viable, why can't they queue as tank?
    42:08 - Has Blizzard failed at the implementation of CRZ?
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  2. #2
    nice long one (maybe not nice for your mental health haha)

    spell haste is provided by boomkins, s-priests, ele shammies and hunter pets (not sure which one)
    EDIT: Its the sporebats.

  3. #3
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    Jul 2011
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    What if crz were phased for level ranges

  4. #4
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    A lot more people raiding, while the number of raiding guilds have gone down.., while I appreciate your weekly Marmots n' miss your toilet cup Lore, kindly separate the abomination of lfr from raiding numbers as their two entirely different entities!

    It's like listening to a CM explaining normal mode raiders don't need to do lfr for upgrades when heroic mode is available, or a person asking for a challenge in the open world, only to be slammed with the <insert monthly final hc raid boss here>

    I bet if some proper data was released about the use of lfr, majority would be normal mode / heroic mode raiders doing it because it is monkey content offering incredibly significant rewards for 0 effort, and if / when that 1-2 pieces drop (ei;trinket or tier piece), it often grants a great boost in a players output.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    One valid reason for a high level to be in a low zone is Loremaster, or farming mats for items (not just leveling professions but also people in RP realms use some crafted items from lower end professions like for transmog.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talvid View Post
    One valid reason for a high level to be in a low zone is Loremaster, or farming mats for items (not just leveling professions but also people in RP realms use some crafted items from lower end professions like for transmog.
    He is talking about the same CRZ, you can have a CRZ created for all the characters that are over the level of that zone and another for the characters in the right level or below. Isn't perfect tho.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2013
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    I like the idea of phasing the zones for the appropriate levels. I mean if you click your map it tells you already what level the zones are designed for. So if you are leveling up and need to know where to look too next a simple map click puts you back on the right path. This way the players phase but nothing else. So should a max level need to be in the zone for low level quest for loremaster or whatever they can. But lowbies can still quest through the zone and WPVP can still happen with appropriate level foes. I agree with the fact that I like the wpvp as long as there's even the slightest chance at all I can do something. Some lvl 90 comes in with attitude I might as well just log for awhile. Which sucks because I only have a certian amount of time during the week to get my wow time in.

  8. #8
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    I tested this very early in MoP with a friend, so I don't know if the system still works this way. If a PvE realm player Real ID/Battletag invites a PvP realm player into their group, you end up in the PvE CRZ and are able to turn your PvP flag off (I don't remember if I had to wait the cooldown period or not). If the 90s ganking you on the PvP CRZs is getting you down, just make some PvE friends.

    While on this topic, how would grouping work? Would players outside the level range no longer be able to help their group-mates in a zone -- would a level 41 not be able to help a level 30 with some quests? What about the very narrow zone brackets in Cataclysm? How far do the brackets reach? When a level 35 with heirloom gear camps my level 32 in questing greens, can I no longer call in a 90 from my guild to turn the tables?

    In my opinion, this is a situation where people say there is a problem: "I don't like being ganked by 90s", the developers already have a design stance: "world PvP is inherently unfair", there is already an existing solution: "roll or group with people on a PvE server", and alternative solutions introduce new problems: "how would group phasing work with bracketing?".

    Lastly, I believe that the superior solution would be to get iLvl downscaling to work. This actually gives a knob for the developers to turn and very loosely 'balance' how high level players are coalesced into a zone. For example, if a zone is intended for levels 30-40, iLvl downscaling could perhaps scale levels 40-60 down to the top end (iLvl 40), 60-80 to the mid end (iLvl 35), and 80-90 to the bottom end (iLvl 30). Higher levels may enjoy a wider toolset (access to more of the class abilities, flying mounts, mastery), but there is a developer knob for them to tune and compensate. Another knob to turn would be the relative level hit tables (need to cap the formula for level difference based hit/miss).

    -HP

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    The example of replacing hit with spirit is overly dramatic. The last few expansions have been trying to make it easier for new people to join the game. Meanwhile they keep stupid stats that were added after release such as expertise and mastery. Your average video game player will understand what str, dex, stam, does to their character, but WoW keeps stats that people will have to look up to understand and they tend to overlap some anyway. How does hit, expertise, mastery, etc make the game more fun vs having maybe 5 base stats? I just don't see how it does. Toning the stats down, having holy pallies wear chain, and not having the gear so specialized could make it more fun for casuals especially.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Can't say I agree with your stance that there should be some challenge in getting 10man raid buffs, but perhaps that's just because I'm on the crappy end of the stick more often than I'd like.

    It's not like the output requirements on 10man are significantly less than on 25man, you still need a decent output from people, being gimped because you didn't have a certain raid member available can be incredibly punishing on 10man, some fights (H-Tortos and H-Wind Lord come to mind) can be make or break depending on one spec being available.

    It's just a prime example of "bring the class, not the player", which I can't say I'm a fan of - it feels like the challenge comes from who's signed on your raid roster at that point, not what goes on during the raid encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by bashstuff View Post
    WoW keeps stats that people will have to look up to understand and they tend to overlap some anyway. How does hit, expertise, mastery, etc make the game more fun vs having maybe 5 base stats?
    You're prettymuch required to look up your rotation too, I wouldn't say rotations should be removed.

    You can still play at a casual level without caring about your stat priorities, you're not going to stop being able to kill things in LFR or dungeons, once you get out of that and into normal + raiding, you're going to be expected to do some research into how to play.

    Having multiple different stats gives me far more Fun than just picking the higher ilevel gear, because stats don't matter.

    The way mastery interacts with warlock abilities is really interesting, it rewards good play on fights like H-Ji-kun and H-Jin'rokh more than pure haste does, which is usually ideal for single target, due to the way it interacts with % buffs when played intelligently. If the only stats I had were haste and crit or somesuch, that engaging and interesting gameplay element that rewards clever and solid gameplay, would be completely gone.

    That alone would be enough of a loss imo to justify not changing it when the only gain you'd have is a few less dusted items on 10man.
    Last edited by Nagassh; 04-25-2013 at 03:26 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    1

    CRZ

    Quote Originally Posted by eald View Post
    He is talking about the same CRZ, you can have a CRZ created for all the characters that are over the level of that zone and another for the characters in the right level or below. Isn't perfect tho.
    They never did this when the game first came out. People still ganked people before CRZ came out. Like in The Burning Crusade, level 70 horde players would stop by Darkshire and just kill the quest givers and any unfortunate low level player that came. Also if a player wants help from a player with a level higher then their zone they are in they won't get it because the helper will be in another instance of the zone. All CRZ did was just make zones more populated and of course if some high levels want to be jerks and ruin it for all the low levels in the zone, just ask around, chances are that there is a 90 on your faction in the same zone that can deal with them (you can hope). Even if they don't the enemy now has a new source of entertainment other then ganking.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    126
    Quote Originally Posted by Banzhe View Post
    A lot more people raiding, while the number of raiding guilds have gone down.., while I appreciate your weekly Marmots n' miss your toilet cup Lore, kindly separate the abomination of lfr from raiding numbers as their two entirely different entities!

    It's like listening to a CM explaining normal mode raiders don't need to do lfr for upgrades when heroic mode is available, or a person asking for a challenge in the open world, only to be slammed with the <insert monthly final hc raid boss here>

    I bet if some proper data was released about the use of lfr, majority would be normal mode / heroic mode raiders doing it because it is monkey content offering incredibly significant rewards for 0 effort, and if / when that 1-2 pieces drop (ei;trinket or tier piece), it often grants a great boost in a players output.
    In terms of the future of raid content, I think it is important to consider them as the same entity. The more players using that content the better for its continued development.

    I think you might have a point that the demographics of RF users might not be quite as people expect.

    In my social/casual guild I'd say only 5 to 10% of active players are using that content. The rest are complaining about a lack of new 5 mans with gear upgrades for their mains and alts.

    I am an ex HC raider and but even I am now "too casual" for RF as the latest dungeons require too much time complete to them - took me 3 hours just to kill Lei Shen despite that I made no mistakes, did the most healing by a long margin and of course due to only getting 2/3 runs I couldn't gain access to the previous two bosses without killing him first!

    RF is definitely no longer aimed at the original target audience. Especially so when you consider Blizzards original criteria that blue posters stated at the time e.g. the amount of time required and where kills were supposed to be "almost guaranteed".

    It seems you frequently find yourself hitting high levels of the wipe buff (I've hit 10) and of course there are now large queues as I correctly predicted prior to the release of 5.2 which creates huge play session lengths by a casual players standard.

    So yes if you tell me that Normal and HC raiders are a high proportion of users then I can believe it although my repairs bill tell me that they aren't exactly the cream of the crop. I suspect that they are mostly those that were previously in low end Normal mode guilds. They have been decimated on my realm and they were the most numerous group of raiders (on my realm) so I guess that explains where they have gone.

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