Offering advice for any heroic 10-man fight in Tier 15.
I don't think those forums are particularly active so I'm not sure if this'll end up helping anyone, however I'm starting this thread in an effort to help people out.
Anyway, the purpose of this thread is you can ask any questions regarding any of the heroic fights in T15. I cannot get into details for class specific things for all the classes, since we don't have every single class/spec in our raiding team at the moment. What I can also help you with, is giving you tips on how to tackle mechanics at a team level.
If you so happen to be interested in participating, try to bring a log of the fight in question!
Last edited by Valaras; 06-05-2013 at 06:28 PM.
We are about to start progression on heroic Ji-kun. My question is this; if you have two groups rotating (3 healing) how do you weave in the 5th dps for feathers to maintain their damage on the boss?
Thanks for any and all help!
I don't think that it's necessary for your 5th DPS to concern himself with the feathers. What we did is, we had 2 groups of 3 players, comprised of 2 DPS and 1 healer in each group. Those groups take nests in turns on a specific rotation that I cannot remember off the top of my head, but if you want I can find it for you.
The 5th DPS for our team (a rogue) just stood on the boss' platform nuking the boss all the time. We did not find the DPS requirements to be particularly demanding (on our first kill we messed up a lot, people fell off the platforms and stuff and we still didn't have berserk issues), so if the rest of your players rotate through the nests properly and take their feathers, you should be good to go.
Hunters are a good canditate for a class to sit on the boss' platform all the time, since their pet despawns always when they move to the nests and their single target DPS is very good. However, it shouldn't really make a huge difference who stays on the boss' platform, just make sure that you send any DKs or Ele shammies on the nests cause they absolutely destroy them! :P
Hope this helped for now, I will double check with my guildmates tomorrow if maybe I have totally missed something and all my info is wrong!
Two dps take all the nests except the 2nd and 8th the 3 platform dps can jump to those nests and grab a feather. During the 9th nest when lower & upper spawn at the same time the 2 dps take the lower platform and other 3 take the upper one.
I'm doing the nests as warrior with an ele shammy grabbing the nutrient buff when nest 2 spawns, while flying up to nest4 and at the end when we nuke the boss. During nest8 it seems to come at the same time as quills so not grabbing the buff then. You can fly from nest9>10 directly while other nests you need to stop at the boss platform first.
Were you having troubles with people dying from Birds during burn phase? Also we had trouble finding out who would take the double nests. Any tips on what group should go up? Thanks
We 2 healed it and only dealt with 8 nests but for awhile in a 2nd group I run with, we tried to handle more nests and 3 healed it. With that setup, what was working best is if Group 1 (your primary nest group basically) goes DOWN to nest 9 and then after that is done, they'll fly up to nest 11. Group 2 will go from nest 8 up to nest 10 fairly easily. I could even get it in one feather usage.
To the question of the 5th dps. Just go down to nest 1, 7 or 9 if they want to pick up feathers. If it really is a dps issue and that will make the difference.
Any chance we can have some discussion about a boss other than Ji-Kun here?
Jin'Rohk, we are getting destroied by Lightening Storm (aside from the dying/wiping to stupid stuff like people with Ionization not leaving puddle). Any tips for dealing with the orbs? If we can surivive the second strom he'll go down, the dps is there. As embarrassing as they are here's the log from last night. (note the Horridon wipe was cause our dps thought it would be fun to push him to phase three before the Dinomancer came up, while two healing)
First off, don't feel embarrassed about wiping to Jinrohk heroic. Having downed him in two separate raid teams and farming him week after week, he continues to wipe both groups at least 2 or 3 times per week because someone can't dodge lightning or "oops I exploded my ionization in the puddle" or "healers got stunned by the tank getting tossed, everyone's dead gg."
As far as the orbs/storm help, two pieces of advice seemed to help my groups. First off, designate a general area for people to be hanging out for access to heals. So for example we had 2 groups of 5 each and one group was to stay near the grate at the entrance to the room, the other group should be at the right side of the room as you looked in at the general area of the grate. Each group of course had at least one heals.
The second piece of advice is to tell people to be wherever they have to in order to survive. I know it sounds counter to setting up the general areas for people to be in, but if people are more comfortable running around near the boss (but close enough for heals) and dodging the orbs out in the open, thats cool. If people seem to like to sit on one of the grates by a door and watch the orbs coming in from in front (since none can come in from behind them) and work it out like that, have them do that. Everyone is just going to have to find their groove and what works for themselves.
I guess a sidenote is that using raid CDs is obviously made for this, only some of them are good and some are not so good. Devo Aura and Healing Tide are just cast and forget type ones that are perfect. Something like Tranq is awful since the druid can't move, same with Divine. The shield barrier is of some use, people can duck in and out of the barrier to reduce their damage as long as they aren't going to run into an orb.
Oh and having looked at your logs a little bit, it just occurred to me to ask how you are dealing with Ionization. Hopefully you hunter, mage, and holy pally are all using their immunities to skip out on Ionization as much as possible. Your resto druid can symbiosis the hunter for deterrance to do the same. But then the question comes, how are you dealing with everyone else? if you are just waiting for it to expire and everyone uses some damage reduction when it goes off, that's a possible cause of wipes in lightning storm. Mainly because everyone will explode their ionization and then be low and the healers will have to catch up quickly and bam just a few seconds later, lightning storm is slowly killing people off. Even if you rotate through and tell people "ok Mr warrior, now you step out of the puddle and get dispelled, ok now the dps monk, ok now etc, etc." that would be better to slowly get rid of ionization than to have it all come out at the same time by expiring. Certainly you can have 1 or 2 people still wait till it explodes and then heal them back up, but if 4 or 5 people are taking a crapton of damage and then head directly into another storm phase low on health, thats bad news for your healers.
Keep at it, its a frustrating fight to farm even so dont worry, you'll get it eventually.
Thanks for the advice. I personally find the orbs easier to avoid when on a grate, but don't usually have that luxury since I tend to bubble and heal. When we have a shammy in raid we have the Druid give him Symbiosis so the Druid gets Spirit Walker's Grace and can cast Tranq while moving.
For Ionization, we're having eveyone who can dispel themselves or avoid the Ionization do it. The only one we actively dispel is our Warrior. I'm the H Pally in the group and I hit Divine Protection then dispel myself; I save my Bubble for the orbs. We try to make sure everyone is topped off before Lightening Storm.
H Horridon 10
I have a question for you about Heroic Horridon:
We get through door 1 with little trouble (I say "little" because there are a few moments where things get a bit hectic).
Door 2 - About the same. We're about 98% confident about these two doors.
Door 3 is where the wheels fall off!
Here are our logs, then I'll talk strat and opinion. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xts8uehqmhe4rocy/
For each door we try to kill the first "big" add immediately. I'll then grab the other two (DK tank) and tank them plus the Dino as we slowly grind through all the adds. On Door 3, though, we barely kill the first "big" (if at all), leaving me with two or three up each dropping frost bombs on us, plus grabbing the Dino.
There's simply a lot of chaos going on. We've had success in the past, but if Doors 1&2 are 98%, Door 3 is 2%.... We are simply afraid of that damn door because we know when it opens, all hell is breaking loose.
I've come up with a new plan of attack, and despite my pleas, no one has shot it down yet. My plan is to kill the first "big", grab the second two and kite them around doors 1 & 2 until our DPS has killed everyone else, leaving our Demo Lock to tank the Dino.
So, now for the questions: What can you see that we could improve? What can you see in my new plan that would invalidate it (and please, PLEASE find something, it's the craziest damn idea I've ever had and I've done some stupid things in my life!)? Do you have any other advice for a guild that is simply struggling to get this kill?
For the record: We have H Jin'Rokh on farm, Horridon and Ji'Kun are the 2nd and 3rd bosses we decided to work on (haven't killed either yet and it's been 2-3 weeks of working on it)
What is up with double posts...
Last edited by Valaras; 06-06-2013 at 02:18 PM.
I do not entirely understand the problem of your team. Is it the fact that you are taking 2 big adds at once and your tanks are dying due to the orbs/cannot pick up the dinomancer, or what is it? You say there is chaos on that phase, however it is a very simple one. What is causing the chaos, the little adds running around the place? Or are you dying to the diseases?
Originally Posted by DarthKeller
In any case, I will tell you how we killed it. First off, we used 3 healers, not 2. Regarding that third door, what we did was always prioritize the small adds, not the big ones. For me as a tank it was pretty simple to just move them around a bit to avoid the orbs. Also your tanks can warn the rest of the raid for when an orb is spawning for melee DPS to move away. Also, our DPS DK specced for the mass grip there, and when a large number of small adds were amassed, we gripped them at one place, then slowed them and AoE nuked them.
Maybe switching to 3 healers will prevent you from dying, I really think 5 DPS are more than enough, at least they were for us. And your setup is pretty decent as well, you have very very strong AoE. I don't know your gear, when I killed it with my guild we had an average ilvl of 513 in the team. Are you sure your DPS is not overnuking the boss himself? Are they using their CDs on the adds that are giving you trouble or are they popping them in-between doors on the boss for higher numbers? A friend's guild who also killed Horridon pretty early (week one) actually used bloodlust on the third door. The "burn" phase at the end is really quick regardless of bloodlust or not, just make sure you use your DPS CDs on the War God that spawns and not on the boss.
Lastly, your plan might work, but I really think it over-complicates the issue.
One quick note right away, many raid groups find Ji-kun a lot easier than Horridon so you are right to target that one next. I'd even say if you grind against horridon for a bit (thats hawt) and aren't making progress, skip it and go to Ji-Kun. You have heroic tier there and thats likely BiS gear for everyone so might as well start farming it up.
Originally Posted by DarthKeller
But to your door 3 problems, there are two things to note out of your logs. One is that many of your deaths came to frozen orbs but many more came to the plague from the adds. This door (among others) requires a high amount of dispells. You have Holy Pally that can do it and a healing priest. PLUS a ret paladin. Yes, dps don't like to dispell stuff as it takes away from the dps they are doing, but if at least your ret pally can watch himself and a few other people for dispelling the plague, that helps out tremendously.
The second thing is that you say things get chaotic, well thats because the only adds with an aggro table are the Warlords. The rest of them fixate on random raid members and go after them. As Valaras notes, you DO want to focus on killing the small adds first on this door and having your tanks just slowly kite the warlords around. However, if your raid is all over the place and separated, its hard to get those little adds down. So my piece of advice here is to have your entire raid (except horridon tank of course) stay "close" to your add tank. Don't stack on top of him as you don't want to get owned by a frozen orbs, but loosely stay near him, this allows for a crapton of cleave and eases healing tremendously. It doesn't always work out perfectly, but your cleave classes will love you for it and things will just melt away. If you want an example of this, check out my raid guide video on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg_0tf-wg6k
I guess a bonus tip would be to have your tank pick up the first warlord and move him back towards door #2 a little bit as adds spawn. This allows you to tank him and let him drop orbs all the way from that door up to door #4. If your dps really do take that long to get the little adds down which I've seen happen often.
And a heads up, door #4 is similar in priority, kill off some of the little adds more so than the big ones since the little ones are more a threat to your raid.
Your idea on the demo lock is interesting but it would spread the raid out further to have you way far away on Door 1 and 2 with some adds and then come back. Rather than do that, just come back and tank the dino and everyone loosely stay in the same general area and cleave the crap out of little adds. Keep up dispells from everyone who can do it and it'll start to work out. Hope it helps out.
Before I ask my next question, let me thank you for the advice given earlier.
No, we still haven't killed Heroic Horridon, but we did move on to H Ji-Kun, and we got that kill in about 10 pulls (we're over 40 on horridon!). We'll go back to that fight, maybe, right now my guild has ZERO desire to work on that fight nor do we care to work on Tortos!
So, we've moved on to Iron Qon.
Question: Single tank? I've read a few places that it is a single tank fight, I've read other places that you should have two.
Our set up - Tanks: Bear/Blood, Melee: Frost/Ret, Ranged: Lock/Shammy/Mage/Hunter, Healers: HPriest/DPriest/HPally
We can easily switch to two Discs, and we're thinking we might two tank this fight and have the two priests become one "dps".
Our lock is Destro/Aff (pref Destro) and our mage is frost.... I think that's about all the info you might need.
Asking the two pallys to take Clemency is fine. So, there you go!
It's a waste to have 2 tanks there since only time your tank will be taking moderate damage is at the burn phase with all 3 dogs up at the end. In my opinion, have your bear tank it.
Originally Posted by DarthKeller
Now, how to reset stacks with external CD. Your tank should set up a simple macro "/cancelaura hand of protection". When the time comes that he wants to reset his stacks, he should call out on your voice program that he wants a HoP, at the moment he starts calling it out, he should start pressing his macro like crazy, so that when the HoP comes, he can remove it instantly so the boss does not melee anyone else.
As to WHEN you reset stacks. There is no strict point where you absolutely have to, but do make sure that you clear them right before the windstorm happens, since inside it you receive reduced healing while the debuff is still ticking. Other than that, also reset when the last dog is at about 30%, so that when all 3 comes you won't have additional damage from the debuff. If, however your tank feels comfortable with the damage he's taking, let the debuff stack up because it'll give him a lot of additional damage.
On our last heroic 1 tank + 3 healer setup, we used HoP during the first transition (otherwise I'ld get melee'd, meaning ~10% chance I get crit and insta-die), then somewhere around 40% on the 3rd dog, when the last shield thingy before the push is happening.
I also agree on the waste of a second tank, it's only really required when you don't have a paladin in the raid (yes, they are that retardedly OP)
Echoing what everyone said so far, 1 tank for sure. As for your healing setup, whatever gets you though the first and last phases is fine. Two dps "checks" I have in mind is that if your stack groups (1 melee group, 2 ranged/heal groups) have each done two full stack cycles (meaning they take 2 stacks, unstack........then when its their turn, they stack for 2 stacks, unstack) and you still don't have the fire dog close to pushing, you probably lack the dps to hit the next dps check which is to have only one wind storm. Its not a killer if you have a 2nd wind storm, its just a drag when you have a perfect pull and fire phase and then you get a 2nd wind storm and lose 3 people in tornados. If you can push the fire dog after 2 stack cycles and only get one wind storm, you have enough dps to down the boss before he kills you in phase 4 regardless of enrage timer. For our first kills, we 2 healed it. In the laziness of farming, we seem to have enough dps to let us 3 heal it and be slightly more careless in our attempts.