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Thread: The Weekly Marmot - Tanks in PvP

  1. #1

    The Weekly Marmot - Tanks in PvP

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Charlotte, NC

    Since you were nice enough to share your forecast with us.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Marina del Rey, CA
    Pff...thunderstorms? Clouds? What are those?

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    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    I know those feels, I too live in Michigan :-|

    I like to pvp with my warrior, I go into random battlegrounds as prot, it's fun, running the flag and all, and with node base bgs, I call out an "inc" and hold the ground until some dps show up (since i can't do anything more then like 10k hits on the bad guys).

    I like the idea of taunting in battlegrounds, making it so their next attack, attacks the tank. I think another idea that might help make tanks worth while in battle grounds would be to add some type of buff that increases the HP of all friendly units within 15 yards of the tank, or decreases damage taken. Either way, i'd like to see some type of change. I love to pvp as prot, but in Rated battle grounds, i HAVE to go arms or fury or else im just a wasted space on the roster.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Hahahahahaha, Michigan thinks it has weird weather...

    Oh... you're cute Michigan, you're cute.

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    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Love the show finally a PVP topic concerning tanks. I have been a prot warr since BC and quite frankly the only spec I've ever really played. I love prot in PVP, some BGS I have to be creative in making myself useful but in most cases I'm normally an asset. I'm almost certain that if they removed tanking from pvp for me I would most likely stop playing WOW, the little uses we have left is what I hang on to and why I play, I know tanking pvp isn't popular, but I love doing it because there are not a lot who do. Honestly if they want to give a tank a job in pvp the way to do it is to stop having so many people that can do my job, too many races and hybrid specs can carry making me not needed as much , kinda sucks when I can't do a lot of other things but everyone can do what I do.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    pvp tanks

    i think tanks are annoying right now in the amount of cc and survivability. as a dps i should be able to nuke them but what it means is .. healing and tank classes have to be nerfed and buffed because they specialize in primarily being able to out live a dps class .. i think it would be much more enjoyable if they had bonuses to other classes in the game that made them something valuable outside of just being able to take or heal through damage.

    the problem is there isnt one real specific class to equalize either of these classes - such as a serious class that brings more damage to a group outside of temp buffs like blood lust and time warp ..

    a talent spec to do serious harm to armored or healing classes but only moderate to survivable abilities against most other classes .. if there is a control , healing class - damage over time melee class etc - there should be a class that deals out damage based on heal over time effects or does more damage based on how armored a class is .. which im sure is present in some aspects of the game but the only other option is to just pretend that its ok for a class to be unable to die without 2 of most any other class killing them .. inside of an hour

    i think this fits into the dark ranger class thats missing from the game - a damage system based on having too much armor or healing buffs .. stamina .. such as hand of protection cuases 10k fire damage until cancelled or removed every second ... or priest pws gives a 50% healing debuff 10 seconds after being removed or dispelled .. a class that has abilities that simply turmp other op abilities in the game like - spell reflection on a 15 second cd .. or granting protection from stun abilities to other players that triggers based on events and so forth .. they have done this in moderation to other classes such as the warlocks unstable affliction silencing on removal or redirecting damage.. it would be great to see a class just based off of dealing damage based on buffs dispel and armor value .. bladed armor but in reverse .. bonus damage based on protection and healing given to the player or being able to transfer it to other players ..

    im fine with tanks the way they have been in pvp - i just presume that people have complained about them the same way i have for awhile now its just that - what makes it satisfying is not to see them nerf something so much as it is to kill a tank class or a considered OP spec in the game .. that is way more enjoyable than to whine about it until they change it because its just too hard to deal with it ... or because people are just not smart enough unless they can just strong arm an opponent without any sort of strategy other than using auto attack ...

    it really may have been nicer just to see the tanks not get a buff but rather non tank flag carriers have a Grace period where they were harder to kill and then somewhere in the middle they would both reach a state of somewhat being just as easy to kill .. but none of this will ever really happen.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by hailmary View Post
    im fine with tanks the way they have been in pvp
    WHich way? In wrath prot warriors had "Armored to the Teeth" which basically converted every 60 armour in 1 AP, and with the amount of armour we had off PVE gear at the end, not only where we armour capped it meant we also had a comparative fucktonne of AP so hit kinda hard. Additionally we had a talent called "Damage Shields" where where upon receiveing a successful melee attack the attack too damage equal to 20% of our Block value. Shield Slam, our main nuke scales off Block value, Not AP. So by the end Prot warriors where armour capped and stacking Block value, meaning rogues would die to the reflected damage they did got whilst they had us in stun lock. Very overpowered. especially once you consider our control talent set, multiple interupts, the greatest mobilty of all classes and spec, spell reflect, disarm, offensive dispels

    In cata we had vengeance, but it didn't power our defences. so you could deal with prot warriors, if you didn't do something stupid like try to nuke him whilst leaving his healer alone. if you killed his healer, then stunlocked him you could burn him down. I actually considered this to be the most balanced of the Tanks in pvp models for prot, becuase unlike the other tanks our vengeance or damage taken was not a factor in survivabilty unlike DK's and Pallies where it meant Big WoGs or Big Blood Shields. and unlike wrath, prot was tough to kill, and had an amazing toolbox of control, and mobility but only offensively powerful if you where stupid.

    In MoP Vengeance does now fuel or defences as well as our offences, but doesn't exist outside of PVE so now there's no risk of us being offensively powerful, even if you're stupid enough to nuke the tank first, and our survivability is gone, and our unique toolbox of awesomeness and our unique mobility well every class has that, and in exchange we got some DPS CDs. unfortunately they're kinda gimped because we don't use 2Hs or don't have powerful passive damage modifiers like SMF or Seasoned soldier.

    Will i be sad if prot no longer has a place in PVP, yes, i like playing prot, i liked that generally punishedf peoples own idiocy, but since the end of 4.2 they've been steadily making it less and less viable for anything PVP related, so now PVP isn't fun, its frustrating to play as prot. Playing a prot warrior should frustrate the opposition, not myself, so if they make it so that classes can't enter PVP instances whilst tank specced all the better, its a clear indication of what blizzard wants us to do, rather than the red-headed step child prot in PVP feel like this expansion.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012

    The Weekly Marmot - Tanks in PvP

    I can't stand prot in pvp. I've played a paladin and warrior, both end content (non heroic mode) in cata, and my paladin was geared in wrath. They're nice for flag carrying, but that's it IMO (haven't tried prot in mop yet.) with that being said, my hunter had 90%+ armor pen in wrath and was able to demolish everything without needing another person, unless it was a lock/Mage or tank/Druid combo. It would suck for them to eliminate prot as a viable spec for pvp, but I wouldn't miss it one bit. That's just my $.02.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    I also live in Michigan, the weather is too crazy. 70s one day, snow next. Humidity is crazy in the summer. Every winter people drive like they have never driven in snow before. Ugh.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    My crazy idea for tanks in PvP is to create a stacking raid-wide Resilience buff. The buff could have a short duration so that if the tank is stunned or kited it will fall off. It should be significant enough to be felt, but not so high that a tank is mandatory at every control point. Having multiple tanks would not bypass the hard cap, though it should make the stacking process faster, and also make it harder to remove through CC and kiting

    I'll just throw out some numbers here as an example. Say a tank smacks an enemy player, now every friendly player within 30 yards gains an additional 2% Resilience for five seconds. The tank keeps beating on people and eventually caps out the buff at 10-20%.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    I think Blizzard needs to do their thing and take some aspects out of SWTOR. Tanking in pvp there is one very fun, and completely viable, and in ranked warzones necessary.

    The Guard aspect allows a tank to defend another player, and with the way they score multiple things in SWTOR tanks get rewarded for using guard. Being able to HoSac per say your healer for as long as they are near you allows even the squishy healers to last without having to make that class's healing be outrageous. Being able to dance your shield to anyone that is getting focused means that people can't just blow all cds and roflstomp that person. Instead you need to think and out maneuver. Either by CCing the tank, or by taking the tank out of the equation. Either way is a win for the Tank as now your focus is on the tank, and not the original target.

    Taunt being able to debuff damage is again just one more thing that Tanks can use to save someone. The other thing not mentioned is Tanks can also AOE taunt debuffing multiple targets. Which is great if people decide to AOE bomb an area with alot of players.

    The control that tanks have in a battle in SWTOR is awesome. Vanguard/Bountyhunter's can peel off targets with moves similar to Death Grip. Sith Assassins' and Jedi Consulars' have the same thing with Force Pull. But they can also burst of speed around to maximize the use of that ability when combined with the environments of the Warzones. Huttball is the best example for this. They can stealth, which adds more trickery to their bag of tricks.

    Jedi Knights' and Sith Warriors' while they can not pull people to them, with Force Jump they can move to the targets. If they need to peel someone off a player they are protecting they can knock them back with a single target knock back. JC and SI's have a conal knockback. JK's and SW's also have an ability that works like Intervene, but rather than just absorbing the next attack it puts a damage reduction buff on the player they leap to for like 5 seconds.

    JK's and SW's are also great at snaring people as they can spec to make their snare resource free, and have no cool down. Quite useful for very faster Voidstar Wins.

    WAR went one step further, and gave healers and dps "Detaunt." Which which did the same thing as Taunt, only it would debuff the damage that that target did to that specific player. In case that is confusing. Say a rogue detaunted a warrior. That warrior would do 30 percent less damage to that rogue, but every other target would still take full damage. Where if the Warrior was Taunted by a tank. The warrior now does 30 percent less damage to everyone but the tank that taunted him.

    I like the idea of taunt forcing the next attack hit the tank, but in a way that takes control out of the player's hand. With the state of outrageous damage, healing, and cc in WoW as it is now. The WAR/SWTOR aspects of tanks in pvp would help bring at least the damage under control. The baseline 65 percent resilience to all players I heard of is another way to help combat the outrageous damage. Still that now leaves bringing healing and Cc down so that is useful, and not overly done.

    On the thoughts of CC, i still love the idea of Resolve from SWTOR. It has been improved since launch, and just the idea of being able to see how much has been built on your target, and your self is nice. As smart pvp players can use that to plan out their ccs, rather than just spamming them till finally DR's take affect. Now I know there are Addons that track DR's but lol I use more than my share as is.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Comstock Park, MI

    No one wants to adress the real issue...

    with PvP in basically a PvE game. When you nerf or eliminate an ability from any class for PvP that also affects that players abilities in PvE. For example Lore stated that there is too much CC in PVP. If we remove CC abilities from a class because of PvP then that character will not have those abilities in PvE raiding. Same with nerfing any class as far as damage output goes. Who wants to put out less damage if fighting Oondasta? My mage has been nerfed over the years because of PvP. This affects my PvE play.

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