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Thread: T15 Best Tier Since Ulduar? As Good As or Better?

  1. #1
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    T15 Best Tier Since Ulduar? As Good As or Better?

    Personally, I think the answer is yes, but I would not go as far as to say it's as good as Ulduar - but that's not a knock on ToT, it's a compliment to Ulduar.

    I've pulled 10 of 12 bosses in ToT on normal, killed 9 and I've seen the first boss on heroic and I have to say they've done a great job with the fights. I thought T-14 was a very good tier, especially compared to the reskinned, boring, short, non-epic DS; but I think ToT is better and has the potential be be a classic.

    The fights in ToT have a nice balance of mechanics, dps checks and healing checks; it may be a tad over tuned on some fights, but it's debatable as there needs to be a challange for normal raiders as they gear up. The trash may be a bit over the top, just the amount, but all in all Blizz did a great job. Of course the artwork is the standard quality you'd expect from Blizz. All that said, why don't I think it's as good as Ulduar? To be honest, I don't quite know, but it's a feel.

    There was just something about Ulduar that made it special - even though I didn't actually clear it until I was an overgeared 85 - I did run it a lot; it just had that little extra attraction that ToT is missing. I think ToT could have benefited by not being totally linear; I like the abiliy to choose fights and fight order as in Ulduar. I also, liked the ability to elect hard mode based on something about the fight. I think it's just one of those things. Kind of like the '67 Corvette or the Shelby Cobra - there are lots of great, fabulous, exceptional, cars, but not all are classics.

    Nothing said is meant to take anything away from ToT, the designers did a great job and really showed they're back on track after DS; but I think I'll always compare whatever is raid is next against Ulduar. I never experienced TBC, started playing the Sept or Oct before WoLK so I guess it's my benchmark.

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    Well... my current guild is god awful, so I really haven't seen most of the instance yet, but it feels more like ICC or Firelands to me. Solid instance, cool mechanics, couple of good bosses, but......... idk, maybe there's just so much nastolgia surrounding Ulduar for me. Hard for me to not see it through rose tinted glasses, you know?
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    I love it TBH.
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    I am really enjoying ToT it has a massive feel like ulduar use to however I agree with theotherone it being linear makes it feel less epic you have to do the bosses in the same order all the time. Ulduar was a better instance cause you could pull bosses differently in each section then move to the next. The trash is maddening at times so much trash but other than those minor things absolutely love ToT.

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    I LOVE IT BEING LINEAR!!!

    Seriously... "okay should we do this boss next or this boss?"
    "wah wah wah my axe drops off this boss let's do it"
    "no way man that boss is harder, I heard this boss is easy let's do this boss"
    *two wipes later*
    "omg this boss is too hard let's try a different one.

    Being "non-linear" as some sort of cool special dynamics to a raid instance is a farce, imo, all it does is add headache since you are going to want to kill them all anyways. Just give me the next boss to kill so I can kill it, don't give me any of these BS Pseudo options.

    If anything I like ToT MORE because it is linear.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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    I can see the linear point, but I'd like where you could choose the order, but you'd have to kill them all to get to the final boss. I liked the Ulduar set up better than Nax - although Ulduar had pure optional bosses.

    In any event, it's picking at straws, I do love the fights, I think it has a bit of everthing and I think some of the fights have some nice unique apects to them - Twin Consorts being one. I would almost say they're a bit overtuned, but I don't think it's overtuning so much as you really have to pay attention in the fights - raid awarenss/dance fights. The fights have a richness and dynamic to them they're not Patchwerk with a twist.

    I think Blizz has gotten its mojo back with raiding. This has been two great tiers.

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    Ifthey let you choose the easy bosses before taking on the hard ones, you end up rushing through the first half of the instance, and then you hit a 6 boss brick wall. I think it is better for raid morale to have hard bosses followed by easy ones, and taking the boost in morale into the next fight.

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    Re: T15 Best Tier Since Ulduar? As Good As or Better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    Ifthey let you choose the easy bosses before taking on the hard ones, you end up rushing through the first half of the instance, and then you hit a 6 boss brick wall. I think it is better for raid morale to have hard bosses followed by easy ones, and taking the boost in morale into the next fight.
    This. Sort of "hard, easy, hard, easy" etc until the final boss being the most difficult.

  9. #9
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    I think that Blizzard has done very well this expansion with keeping raid bosses interesting. If T16 does not become another Dargon Soil then MoP could become the "new TBC" in that regard.

    Hard content? Yes.
    Raids accessible to everybody? Yes
    Heroic mode only bosses for the elite? Yes
    Interesting fights? Yes

    Shame they appear to be doing away with 5mans though, but lets see how hard the heroic scenarios are (although the "hard" bit appears to be a question of speed, so will reward overpowering the content with gear).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    There was just something about Ulduar that made it special - even though I didn't actually clear it until I was an overgeared 85 - I did run it a lot; it just had that little extra attraction that ToT is missing. I think ToT could have benefited by not being totally linear; I like the abiliy to choose fights and fight order as in Ulduar. I also, liked the ability to elect hard mode based on something about the fight.
    i agree about the hard mode triggers; those were a blast in ulduar. i've never wiped so much as i did on firefighter and FL+4.

    uldaur & kara are frequently mentioned in people's lists of favorite raids (and ICC to some extent). having done all of them when they were current, i see some similarities:

    epically big
    fun & unique encounters (is anything as fun as opera was, or as stunning as your first ever pull on algalon?)
    strong story / lore interaction
    some choice in boss kill order

    ToT is clearly trying to hit those targets (except the last one), and so far i think they're doing a good job. even though we're only 4/12, i'd rather progress at this pace and enjoy myself than have another raid like DS.

    cataclysm really dropped the ball on the lore piece of it, and i think that's why it's often considered the worst expansion.

    in kara, we got to know medivh and his castle really well.
    in ulduar, we knew we were working towards some old god deep beneath the place, and his influence was everywhere.
    in ICC, we had perhaps the clearest storyline of all with an amazing villian and such an epic ending to the final encounter.

    i don't know if the thunder king will live up to these, as i haven't gotten that far in the raid yet. but so far, so good.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    .

    i don't know if the thunder king will live up to these, as i haven't gotten that far in the raid yet. but so far, so good.
    I think he does. I haven't killed him, but did several pulls and I think the fight, what I saw of it (got into phase 2) is very well done; although the graphics on the pull really messed with my video card.

    Some of the other fights as you advance are fun. Iron Quon (a bit long) and Twin Consorts being really fun.

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