Hello, in this small guide, I will be composing a small guideline that may or may not help when you are leveling and/or gearing your rogue.
For the purpose of this particular guide, as I play an assassination rogue, I will be able to hopefully flesh out small details with mechanics as well as stats.
What are the important stats?
Okay, so as an agility user, and what is comfortable for me, the list looks like this:
AGILITY - Primary stat, gives us attack power as well as critical strike rating.
CRITICAL STRIKE RATING - An important stat that gives us more chance to deal extra damage.
MASTERY - Increases the potency of our poisons.
HASTE - Increases the speed of our weapons.
HIT + EXPERTISE - Increases our chance to hit a boss (more or less).
Okay, so as you can see, I have listed off all the majority of the stats that are more or less important.
So aside from the primary stat being Stamina and Agility, the secondary stats is always good if it has both critical strike rating and mastery, however, you also have to take hit and expertise into account if you wish to be effective in a raid, because those stats are what makes your hits and attacks land on the boss.
The reason that mastery and critical strike rating is more important than haste is purely because daggers are swift weapons, you may have haste on parts of your gear, but bare in mind that you also have a couple of speed increasing abilities, but we'll dive into mechanics a bit later.
So, how much hit and expertise do you need? Well, in percentage terms, you need 7.50% in both stats, if you can seem to reach the mark, use any of expertise/hit gems or to reforge a secondary stat unless otherwise, if you have any excess hit or expertise, to reforge them into a secondary stat of your choice.
Next up, we have gemming your gear as you progress, as I have previously mentioned, critical strike rating and mastery is important, but agility is still our primary stat, so always use a delicate gem, regardless of any socket bonus, the only time you will need the socket bonus is as much as 2 red agility gems or more, of course, the other gem should include agility, unless otherwise previously stated that you need more hit/expertise, for blue, you would want the Shifting Imperial Amethyst (unless you need hit/expertise) and for yellow, you would want Adept Vermilion Onyx.
The main reason we don't have agility AND crit rating as a gem is because agility compensates for it and it also covers attack power, so to have mastery from the orange gem is ideal if you're going for the socket bonus, unless of course, the bonus isn't worth going for or the socket is a different color.
Okay, so the fun side, as I have previously stated, haste is NO as important any other stat for assassination, mainly because of their raw speed, as you collect pieces of gear, there will no doubt be some haste, which is completely fine, it just isn't necessary or as important to us than the likes of say, a combat rogue (due to using slower weapons) our speed would always be below 1.60 anyways but we are going to dive into why it also isn't important right now.
So as a rotations goes, we include a mechanic called "Slice n Dice" which increases our attack speed by 40%, on top of that, if you are also playing a troll, you also have an additional 20%, not to mention when you use bloodlust/heroism/time warp, which is 30%, which added up, gives you a massive 90% increase to attack speed (70% if you aren't a troll, which is still pretty good).
If your raid composition decides to use bloodlust/hero/time warp at the beginning of the encounter, it would be ideal to get Slice n Dice up as soon as possible, followed by Vendetta (for a troll, you would pop berserk here) and then shadow blades, so to help:
Stealth - Garrote - Mutilate - Slice n Dice - Vendetta - Berserk (skip if you aren't a troll) - Shadow Blades - Mutilate x2 - Rapture - Vanish - Mutilate x2 - Envenom - Mutilate - Preparation - Vanish - Garrote.
I know it's long but really, after you get rapture up, you're free to do make your own rotations, as long as you keep slice n dice and rapture up, then things like vanish to put garrote up is just an extra, if prep is off CD then an extra cheap mutilate.
You also want to be sure that if you're using a shaman in your raid composition, that he/she will be using Stormlash totem around when you use Shadow blades, as the totem will give additional damage to all players when they use their abilities and your shadow blades give additional damage to your auto attacks (white damage) so you will be dealing addition damage for an X amount of time.
And because shadow blades is based on auto attacks and not abilities, this is where attack speed is important, but your speed will be around 1.00 anyway with Slice n Dice and around 0.85 with hero/BL/TW, you will be making the most out of your shadow blades (especially with the T14 4 piece bonus, although outdated).
Lets talk about glyphs and their contributions;
The most notable glyph for us is the glyph of Vendetta, which increases its duration by 10 seconds but reduces it's damage by 5%, this glyph is very useful, especially for a burn period so I would recommend this glyph.
I would also recommend using the expose armor and sap glyph, as the expose armor reduces enemy armor by 12% and thus dealing slightly more damage, only apply if no other class can apply it and the sap is so it will last longer.
The minor glyphs are mainly for vanity so I'd say chose what appeals to you.
In my opinion, I think something like Blade Flurry could be a general talent, much in the way that Blade storm and Shockwave is for warriors on the level 60 tier with Shadowstep as I think it could be better suited, or change Shadowstep to preparation instead of baseline so it offers more of a situation benefit with Blade Flurry but that's just my view on it.
Anyway, hopefully I am clear in this guide as to why I have taken this direction and that this had helped any assassination rogues who has used this guide, totally open to interpretation and please do feel free to send me mail on this particular guide, and if you wish, please do send questions in and I will try to answer them, if I can, I will compose them in a video, should it be necessary.
Thank you for reading!
That's not how haste works! Also energy regen. And shouldn't you at least mention Dispatch? and why Garrote? a 2CP rupture ticks faster providing more VW procs, which can easily be attained either through opening with a Ambush or Mutilate and no mention of Tricks? for shame, FOR SHAME!
A word on expertise, you don't necessarily need 7.5% expertise, if your abilities are dodged or parried you're energy costs is refunded meaning you've only lost a GCD, something ass rogues have to spare. Envenom also has the peculiar effect that if it fails to connect it refunds energy and you still get the Envenom Buff. Which is actually pretty damn awesome for maximising post Envenom Mutilates. Expertise to 7.5% generally falls behind Mastery in stat weight terms.
And moving on to Gemming, almost any socket bonus is liable to warrant a hybrid gem even something as weak as 60 agility per gem gem for the socket is worth taking.
OK... so I am sure that you have the best of intentions with producing this guide and I appreciate the effort that you've put in to contribute. However, there are some things which are fundamentally incorrect, and some things which I suggest are more a statement of your opinion/understanding than a statement of fact.
For example: The value of haste is not reduced by the fact that rogues use fast weapons. Fast weapons get faster by the same amount that slow weapons do, it's all relative. Haste also increases the speed at which rogues regenerate energy. With the new RPPM trinkets and the legendary meta gems, rogue theorycraft has haste as the best secondary stat (although mastery beats haste until you have all those items). The reality is that crit/mastery/haste will all increase your damage, that working out which is the most beneficial depends on a lot of complex numerical factors, and that for most players the simplest answer is to let Shadowcraft (an excellent rogue-specific gear optimisation website) work it out for you.
The Elitist Jerks Rogue Forum is still a very good source for detailed theory on rogues. You should probably check some of the statements you've made (e.g. how to gem and reforge, how the stat priority works) and either align to their standards or be sure about why you are saying something that contradicts.
I must admit, I maybe getting a few pieces of information wrong or some parts are outdated, perhaps I'm not explaining well enough in a way that it doesn't contradict, perhaps I also do need to take another look at how haste works and look at both websites, ever since playing my rogue again, I've been playing to how I feel comfortable and I must admit, I've been doing well but maybe I can do better with the information you have provided.
Originally Posted by swelt
Dispatch when it is procced should certainly be used as it's free and can be usable above 35% hp, otherwise it's a more potent version of Backstab, which should be spammed at 35% hp.
Originally Posted by Tengenstein
While 2cp rupture ticks faster, providing more VW, it's outright potential (assuming affected by haste) is lost, 5cp would be much more effective in theory, by all means use mutilate for vanish, ambush is hardly used because mutilate deals slightly more damage than ambush, as for Tricks, well, there's a number of things that it can go and that comes down to how good the tank is at keeping aggro, otherwise the damage buff could be used by another dps to push during a burn phase or for that last push to down the boss.
As for gemming, I believe that agility is rather quite valuable, something that I will look into more, however, I think having the 160 agility is going for unless the socket bonus can give equal, if not more, than what you are using total to the amount of agility gems you're using, example would be the chest from Tortos, while gemming 2 160 gems would give 320, if you go for the socket bonus, it will give you 360, giving you a plus 40.
I maybe getting math wrong here but it is how I feel comfortable playing.
Okay guys, thank you very much for pointing these out, I will read up and do more research, I very much wrote this with the intent of sharing my strategy on playing, I very much appreciate your feedback!
Rogue Dots are unaffected by haste, a 2CP Rupture has 6 ticks over 12 seconds, garrotte has 6 ticks over 18 seconds with your opening you only get the first 6 or so ticks of garrotte before you put Rupture up The actual DPS of either is wank without Venomous Wounds.
Mutilate only has about 60% of the DPE of Ambush, however mutilate has the chance to proc Blind side. Talent choices will generally decided which is you better opener.
YOur viewpoint of Tricks is rather short sighted and self centered, On the pull yes its about threat, but if you add yours to the tanks and the tank is doing 15% additional damage, Not a single person in the raid has to worry about aggro on the only point of a fight where aggro is a concern. The main tank can worry about survivability rather than anything else, you don't have to worry about threat at all, None of the DPS need to either, the off tank doesn't have to either, the raid don't even have to wait a second or so for the tank, everyone in the raid can just go fullretardmaxdps.com on the boss. And later in the fight you can tricks your best DPS, which if you work it in on CD works out to be ~3% damage buff; Not trivial. Not maximising Tricks is hallmark of being a bad rogue.
Agility is valuable, But so are the secondary stats; generally in a one for one trade, Mastery, crit, haste have between 40% to 47% the value DPS of agility. However with gems you get twice as much secondary stat for the gem as you do Agility, so a 320 Mastery will be worth about 94% of the DPS of a 160 Agility gem, so all you need is to find 6% of an agility gem from the socket bonus, or about 10 agility or or say 25 of secondary stat.
Might I add then, anything that transfers threat will always be cast on the tanks on the initial pull, I did not mention this when I created the thread, purely because it is one of those things that you should be doing anyway, no matter the rotation.
Originally Posted by Tengenstein
I guess that makes more sense now, secondary stats as well as socketing the bonuses will contribute more in the long run, rather that having to stack a particular stat.
Originally Posted by Tengenstein
Originally Posted by Tengenstein
Okay, I have a question, Ruptures ticks also don't increase as it remains at a tick per 2 seconds, it's also unaffected by haste so it's dps potential is maximized at 5CP instead of 2 and it will also be easier to keep its up time?
Originally Posted by Tengenstein
But its tick damage is negligible, you don't want rupture ticks for their damage you want them for their venomous wound procs and it really doesn't matter how many CP you dump in it on the pull, just that it's up and giving you energy back as soon as possible. yes a 5cp rupture is more DPE than a 2 DPE one, but who cares when its a DPS loss overall to get the 5cp befor eit goes up
Technically, Garrote is kind of eligible for VW as an opener until you rupture then enemy? Or perhaps Rupture ticks faster...Sorry I seem so noobish, I've been so comfortable with my strategy and doing rather well, now that I'm discovering more, I'll be able to improve myself
Get over Garrote, the damage is pathetic compared to Ambush and the tick speed is 50% slower than Rupture which means 50% less venomous wounds damge and 50% less energy back over time until you get rupture up. the only reason an assassination rogue uses Garrotte in MoP is for the 3 second silence, and as most bosses are immune to silence there's no point.
ambush>rupture>mutilate>SnD>mutilate Envenom> the reason you open up like this to get all your finishers rolling quickly, after this you can go for 5 point Envenoms, and just keeping Rupture up with whatever CP you have has it expires. Arguably you'd get the best uptime for cost of rupture if you cast it with as few CP as possible, think about it you get at 1CP 12s of rupture uptime, thats 6 ticks. 6 ticks per CP; at 5CP you get 24 seconds, 12 ticks a measly, 2.5 ticks per CP. which frees up so many more CPs for Envenom.