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Thread: No New 5 Mans - Will They be Missed?

  1. #41
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    Hell any class could probably solo the last boss of stormstout if you played the healing beams properly.
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  2. #42
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    I was for the record not arguing that it couldn't be done, it seems viable,it was the notion of it being easy in ilvl 440 I found off.

  3. #43
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrQXwWYDuw <- there 468 DK soloing stormstout. Proof.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrQXwWYDuw <- there 468 DK soloing stormstout. Proof.
    We did get a link of Mione soloing (almost) the challenge mode, so I can see that it is possible. But again, key words being "easy" and "ilvl 440". And that is also a DK again. But Stormstout is also quite solo friendly, being a lot of mechanics, and not an overwhelming amount of "raw" dmg.

  5. #45
    Hell any class could probably solo the last boss of stormstout if you played the healing beams properly.
    Even better: Don't get the version with the healing beams! Then it's just a tank'n'spank.

  6. #46
    We did get a link of Mione soloing (almost) the challenge mode, so I can see that it is possible.
    Yeah, he got the version with the healing beams at the end, which is probably near-impossible in challenge mode with the mechanics. On the other hand, the version without the beams is pretty much a pushover.

    And that is also a DK again.
    Stop saying that like it somehow invalidates everything. =P

    But Stormstout is also quite solo friendly, being a lot of mechanics, and not an overwhelming amount of "raw" dmg.
    When I was seeing what I could solo and what I couldn't, I really didn't run into too many cases where just flat out raw damage was the limiting factor. Often, it was an issue of not enough DPS output (First boss, Scarlet Monastery) or some debuff I couldn't deal with. (First boss, Scarlet Halls)

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    Yeah, he got the version with the healing beams at the end, which is probably near-impossible in challenge mode with the mechanics. On the other hand, the version without the beams is pretty much a pushover.



    Stop saying that like it somehow invalidates everything. =P



    When I was seeing what I could solo and what I couldn't, I really didn't run into too many cases where just flat out raw damage was the limiting factor. Often, it was an issue of not enough DPS output (First boss, Scarlet Monastery) or some debuff I couldn't deal with. (First boss, Scarlet Halls)
    Well, yeah, it's not like it invalidates, but what I argue against is that solo dungeons are easy, can be done by almost everyone (not just DKs) and in ilvl 440. And yes, I know that DKs are the best at solo'ing, which is also why I'd like to see / know that other classes can easily do it as well.

  8. #48
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    Warriors. Second wind makes them rather good at it.
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  9. #49
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    If Blizzard isn't going to be adding 5 man dungeons with each tier, then it's evidence enough that they are starting to pull the plug out of the wall on WoW and devoting their resources to something new.


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    If Blizzard isn't going to be adding 5 man dungeons with each tier, then it's evidence enough that they are starting to pull the plug out of the wall on WoW and devoting their resources to something new.
    I do believe that the developer team is larger than ever?

  11. #51
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    Look the fact that any class not in raid gear can solo instances is a sign they're easy. Not like pre-nerf cata dungeons where you had to cc or you'd get wrecked. We're splitting hairs at this point folks.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Not like pre-nerf cata dungeons where you had to cc or you'd get wrecked. We're splitting hairs at this point folks.


    You'll never again see anything subject to LFD be anything like Cata heroics at release.

    I loved Cata heroics at release...with friends and/or guildies. I refused to pug them after the first week or two. They're at the difficulty level they are because of pugs. Simple as that.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavfin View Post

    You'll never again see anything subject to LFD be anything like Cata heroics at release.

    I loved Cata heroics at release...with friends and/or guildies. I refused to pug them after the first week or two. They're at the difficulty level they are because of pugs. Simple as that.
    Bah, Cata heroics were still easy.

    TBC heroics were heroic.

    Then again we were all a lot worse at the game back then.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    Bah, Cata heroics were still easy.

    TBC heroics were heroic.

    Then again we were all a lot worse at the game back then.
    Still easy with people we know, yeah. It's those OTHER people....

  15. #55
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    Re: No New 5 Mans - Will They be Missed?

    What if they were to make the heroics "harder" if you group up with your friends/guildies? Sort of like challenge modes but without the time constraints.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavfin View Post
    Still easy with people we know, yeah. It's those OTHER people....
    I have a different view on this point, the early cata heroics, including the trolls, were doable with people I knew but not easy (except the one in the clouds, forget it's name), and wipefests in pugs - while we were in level appropriate gear. Which I think would have been up to 353 for the trolls if I remember correctly.

    I mean, come on, Grim Batol in a pug was a death wish - if you got past the first boss "what do you mean cc the purple guy", the freaking giant would fry the group "what? I have to not stand infront of him"; just skip the thrid boss cause moving out of purple spray is hard and not kiting fire into everyone else is impossible and you get the last boss and it's "I have to kill the adds before? they get to the eggs?" And this was all wrapped up in, if you got that far because of the damn trash - "but in Wrath I could just aggro entire heroics and aoe the shit down must be a fail healer".

    Hell, they had to nerf cc, cause people could not/would not coordinate the cc with the pull. Don' even get me started on the first boss in Throne of Tides "holy crap cc in the MIDDLE of the fight wtf is this and I have to avoid tornados too".

    Then we have the first boss in ZA, pre-nerf, where as a healer your choice was dispel, if you could keep up with the dots going out and go oom, or spam heals and go oom. The dispel mechanic as just stupid fast when it first dropped. Then we have the bird boss with the groups that wanted to zerg him, but didn't have the dps.

    Personally, I think heroics have run their course, I see Blizz moving more and more to senarios (espeically with heroic senarios) where you don't need the normal 5 man group comp, it's more inclusive. I just dont' know what they'll do for loot since as a healer there's really nothing for you to do in a senario.

    Personally, 5 mans are fun the first time through, after that, they're just there to get some gear for entry level raiding and for VP. I don't think I ever logged on and said "hey, lets get a group together cause 5 mans are fun" like we do when we put together a raid group.

    I could actually see LFR becoming like 5 mans where you can do a random lfr as much as you want - maybe not; I don't know.

  17. #57
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    I will miss them, I think. My guild is dead and I'm not sure I have the energy to find a new one, even if I did, I don't have the time to devote to full scale raiding multiple nights a week. Which leaves me with LFR, where you barely need to know the mechanics. A few harder 5 mans with better rewards would have kept things interesting. Maybe the heroic scenarios will accomplish that.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buchler View Post
    It is indeed horrible when asked to back up claims with evidence yeah.
    But now you know at least, I like to see some evidence before I just accept things said on the internet as fact, I found that people will claim just about anything in this internet world.
    Yes you don't have to, but we do. He's been on these forums for a long time with a long trail of "evidence" backing up his claims, you're just a petulant child who has a hard-on for arguing (~10 posts in one day, all of 3 sentences or less? All I heard is "I know you are but what am I?")
    Last edited by feralminded; 04-04-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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  19. #59
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    My entire point is make 5 mans a viable loot-progression path and remove them from LFD (the progression versions). If 5 mans steal people from raids then so be it (though in my defense I picture heroic 5 mans as "harder" than normal raids, so if you want the easier path to gear you raid), people are getting the content they want the way they want. I never suggested we get new, unique 5 mans that only come in the "heroic" configuration. I believe the current 5 mans can easily be ratcheted up to virtually any difficulty level and appropriate loot can be handed out ... this is the point. As with raiding, scenarios and dungeons should have a plurality of difficulty levels, the lowest of which is geared for LFx, the next geared for coordinated but not ultra skilled or time-invested folks, and the highest tier geared for the ultra skilled and time invested. This makes the most content for the most people without actually putting a ton more work into it. It's the model we've had for raids since ICC and for dungeons since BC and now for scenarios. My point is you simply canonize it, normalize it, and then unleash it. Everyone wins.
    Last edited by feralminded; 04-04-2013 at 11:06 AM.
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  20. #60
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    In fairness Feral I never understood your point that way, but now that you really put it all together in a progression path paradigm, I understand and like it. I always misinterpreted it to be just the mantra of make heroics hard again, which was my mistake.

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