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Thread: PST Rapid Fire! Round 11

  1. #1

    PST Rapid Fire! Round 11

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    24
    Stamina stacking to try and increase vengeance gain simply does not work. Mathematically, the more health you have, the harder it is to reach that cap via Vengeance. You already need to take FIFTY times your health pool in damage over the course of 20 seconds.

    That means a boss needs to be able to do 50x your health in under 15 attacks. That's worse than Wrath, as a boss needs to be able to one-shot you several times over.

    They'd be swinging for almost four times your health pool per swing, pre-mitigation. That's not necessarily a death sentence in and of itself, but as that'd be the bosses' normal melee attack that comes every 1.5 seconds, having a boss like this in play would require that he'd only be alive for upwards of a minute before he'd kill your tank as he ran out of cooldowns.

    We already have to chain cooldowns on Heroic Will, and even there I'm only getting 150k vengeance or so. Wind Lord can break 300k vengeance, and that's still not even half my current health pool with absolutely no stamina stacking.

    And then there's the Death Knights who have more stamina by design than the other tanks... I don't really enjoy thinking about bosses that swing for about four million damage every hit.
    Last edited by Darthruneis; 02-17-2013 at 02:51 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthruneis View Post
    Stamina stacking to try and increase vengeance gain simply does not work. Mathematically, the more health you have, the harder it is to reach that cap via Vengeance. You already need to take FIFTY times your health pool in damage over the course of 20 seconds.

    That means a boss needs to be able to do 50x your health in under 15 attacks. That's worse than Wrath, as a boss needs to be able to one-shot you several times over.

    They'd be swinging for almost four times your health pool per swing, pre-mitigation. That's not necessarily a death sentence in and of itself, but as that'd be the bosses' normal melee attack that comes every 1.5 seconds, having a boss like this in play would require that he'd only be alive for upwards of a minute before he'd kill your tank as he ran out of cooldowns.

    We already have to chain cooldowns on Heroic Will, and even there I'm only getting 150k vengeance or so. Wind Lord can break 300k vengeance, and that's still not even half my current health pool with absolutely no stamina stacking.

    And then there's the Death Knights who have more stamina by design than the other tanks... I don't really enjoy thinking about bosses that swing for about four million damage every hit.
    That's not how Vengeance works.

    Avg Vengeance = 0.018*(RawSwingDamage/BaseSwingSpeed)*(20/BaseSwingSpeed)

    Beware, Knapkin math;
    Assuming a tank has 600k hp, in order to cap vengeance the boss would have to have an unmitigated Swing damage 3.75m damage at 1.5 second base swingspeed swing speed. Even assuming the armour cap damage reduction of 75% and a 25% tanking stance DR and weakened blows too that still that's still a 632k melee hit.

    Not that i'm disagreeing with you, generally you're never going to vengeance capped unless they bring in a exceptionally fast hitting boss, as swing speed is probably the coefficient most likely to bring you close to the cap, in the example above a 1.0 swing speed would mean only having to take 450k hits to cap vengeance. I think this is the reason the Sha of Fear, and to a lesser extent Qiang have such slow swing speeds, it decimates their vengeance potential. They've also got round the insane Vengeance boosts of boss specials by assuming they have a "swing speed" of 60.0 seconds.

    So yeah, for the most part until bosses start hitting faster than 1.5s if they can't kill you with a single swing, they can't vengeance cap you either. They'll one shot you before they Vengeance cap you.


    Also would love a Glyph or class quest that turned my Pallies spell effects purple. Tier 2 recolour FTW
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    2
    About the health of bosses, I would not be surprised at all if bosses hit about 2,5 billion hp during the expansion. Looking back at logs from cataclysm, dps on baleroc heroic increased by about 40% between 4.2 and the mop pre-patch. Since the damage we can deal goes hand in hand with the hp of bosses we can take a look at how things has worked previously.

    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/sylv...aleroc-10H-303

    These are hunter logs and from what I can recall hunters didn't scale better than any other class with the gear from dragon soul. This increase is only 1 tier, whereas in mop we will "probably" have 2 more tiers of gear which, if we follow this logic we can expect an increase of about 96% in our dps in the last tier (if we increase our dps by 40% per tier). We will probably do even more than this though, since the difference between the item levels is higher in mop between the tiers.

    Heroic Sha takes about 17 minutes to kill right now in 25man (the fight also has a lot of time where the entire group is not doing damage to the boss), which is a pretty long fight comparable to other end of tier bosses that we've seen. The hp would have to be ridiculous in the last tier if a fight was to last that long.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3
    As for makign Charachters with the RAF, you dont even have to pay to have them transferred to your account. If you have all of your accounts under the same battletag, you can just merge the accounts for free.
    I just did this, and i was shocked that they allowed me to, but it allowed me to cancel my 2nd account.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    26
    With all the tools Blizz has to modify gear (ilvl scaling, transmog, etc.) I don't see why they couldn't just solve the problem with the introduction of a new spell for Holy Paladins at lvl 85.

    Bless Armor - You infuse a piece of mail armor with holy light, sanctifying it and bolstering it with radiant power.Turns a piece of mail gear of ilvl 350 or higher into an equivalent piece of plate gear.

    Then all that's left to do is just remove INT plate from the drop tables of monsters. The only INT plate in the game would then be the tier pieces, which are token drops anyway. Minimal fuss, and the gearing problem is solved.

    I suppose there's a bit of a lore hole when you stop to think, "Why did INT plate just stop existing?", but I think that most players (barring RP servers) won't care that much.

    Alternatively, you could just give that to Holy Paladins at lvl 40 when they would gain the ability to wear plate, and just strip out all the int plate drops altogether.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    59
    I've been advocating that ability myself, and it would indeed be a nice solution.

    They can still have Int Plate from vendors/crafting/quests/tier sets, but simply remove it from the drop table. It should also only work on Elemental/Restoration gear, not on Enhancement/Hunter gear.

    The only real downside of this is looks. Would the looks be retained, or would the ability change the looks?

    Admittedly, another downside is that people might not realize at first that paladins should have fair share on those items together with shamans. Paladins might fail to realize they need mail gear. Shamans might whine about paladins taking their mail gear. Raid leaders might forbid paladins from rolling on mail gear that's still needed by shamans. But that does seem like something that would solve itself over a quick period of time, or perhaps by labeling the items with "Can be blessed by a holy paladin."

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