Where the Community Really Begins in WoW

[Fetzie]

Intersting responses. I intend to be a part of a a guild just starting up on raiding. Yeah, the one I am in. W have a meeting scheduled tomorrow on how we go about it. yOu guys seem so helpful when I ask for advice (and you really do go out of your way to help) but you also seem close minded regarding recruitment of new raiders.

I've done over a hundred guild interviews as (one of) the recruiting officer(s) and sat in on my more. I think I've earned my stripes with regards to knowing whether a person will be an asset to the raid as well as being a nice person to be with.

Someone above said the raids are impossible without the cheats... oops i mean addons. I don't think so. I would wager that you give me 9 dedicated people and we will form a raiding ream that may not be number one, but we will accomplish something far more important. We will have a lot of fun achieving our goals together as a team. I also want there to be more than one team in the guild.

Of course it is possible to play without a boss mod. It is just much harder to play to your best while remembering timings and positioning. Especially when you are leading the raid and telling everybody else what to do. Even guilds like Method, Paragon and Blood Legion remind their players what is happening. Having more than one raid team is going to be a massive headache. You'll be needing to put at least one officer in the second team for it to not dissolve into bad tempers within a month.

We are in a grounbreaking era. WOW has suffered immense losses in subscribers (2 million is nothing to sneeze at regadless of what industry you are talking about.)

And yet my guild is perfectly healthy. Yes, WoW may have lost some people, but the game is 8 years old! Of course it will lose popularity over time, as the old players find themselves unable to dedicate as much time to the game as it demands.

The new people joining should never get the impression that they will never be raiders, or that raiding is a very serious business. (This is the type of talk I picked up while leveling and learnng the game) Raiding is simply the ultimate goal we ALL strive for.

Who suggested that? However, there are some players that simply are incapable of raiding because they are not good enough at playing the game, and simply cannot (or will not as is sometimes the case) improve. For the good of the raid (which is your responsibility as raid leader) you sometimes have to let somebody go.

I don't want to hear that you HAVE to do this or you HAVE to do that. I ntend on entering the 10 man rading scene with a group where we all have our strong points and weak points. Gear makes a ton of difference. Knowledge on stat priority, gemming and hit chance are just a few things required to learn to help your toon to do a better job.

There is a saying that I adhere by: A lack of gear is easy for the guild to fix. A lack of experience is easy for the guild to fix. A lack of being able to play the class properly is something only the player can fix themselves, be it from posting on a site like TankSpot and reading class guides, watching boss videos and guides or simply pounding away on a target dummy or running LFR until they have completely mastered a fight. Knowing the stat priority, gemming and hit chance are basic common knowledge anybody should be able to figure out themselves.

If you bark orders to people it tends to rub them the wrong way. If you tell a player they suck it REALLY rubs them the wrong way.

That depends on whether the person knows you are talking bullshit or not. Yes, it depends on the player but sometimes telling somebody that they need to improve dramatically and that you have opened recruitment for their spot it what they need to realize how badly they were playing.

I'm not surprised that barking orders in a dungeon doesn't work. I doubt more than 10% of people in an LFG 5 man even read the chat.

I was scard as shit to tank my first raid.

Join the club. You can pick up a membership card by the door.

But I finally did it an found out it isnt the terror I thought it was. A healer and I run dugeons together and then critique our peformance after with recount as a guide.

Recount is an addon. Isn't that cheating? Shouldn't you be able to figure it out on your own? <-- may or may not be sarcasm

I know a lot of you have been here for years and feel you have earned and deserve a higher staus, but this elitism can turn people away.

If the raid members do not respect you as an authority, they won't listen. If they don't listen to you, you WON'T HAVE A RAID TO LEAD in three weeks' time. This is not "elitism". It is telling you how it is. We've been running raids for years. We've all seen the mistakes that cause a guild to fracture and split. We've all seen raids fall apart. We know how painful that is. We'd rather not see yours fall apart. Not requiring a boss mod of your raiders will make your progress much slower. Figuring out every fight by yourselves will make your progress much slower, or even stop completely as key raid members leave for pastures new. It is an honourable proposition, but in reality it simply does not work.

Its hard to give thought with your passive aggressive statement about addons and calling people closed minded. I think you're naive, but go ahead prove me wrong, have wonderful group experience I just think it's gonna take a lot more effort than you anticipate and if you do you won't end up with the same 10 people that you start with

I can only second this statement. Do not underestimate the amount of work leading a raid is, and exactly how much leadership the raid needs. Both needs will be much greater than you currently estimate.

[Ltranger]

The only "bad" player is one that won't seek out knowledge and strive to be the best they can. Hell, I barely raid anymore but I watch as many boss fights as possible when I have time (usually at work using the latrine lol). If you want a raid spot, you have to earn it. If you give someone a spot then they'll be complacent and not try to be better. If you make them work for t, they'll strive to be better at whatever role/class they are and in turn, will make your raid team better.

[starcruncher]

Ok. You wont be seeing any more posts from me. You took everything I said and picked it apart as if you know it all and I am a baby in a crib with a rattle, who stands in fire. The addon recount is an excellent learning tool and I said so in a previous post, if you paid as much attention to that as all the other things you are referring to in my previous posts. If I consider addons cheat you call me a dick. I am truly surprised at your response. It is as if you want to start a fight no matter what. I will not post here anymore. Fortunately I can still watch the Lore videos without all the negative interaction. I used to highly recommend this site to other members, but not anymore. I think I will warn them away from now on.

[Bovinity]

Fetzie was pretty darn polite, and I don't see anything he said that's incorrect.

The real issue here is that you simply will not stand to be disagreed with.

[Fetzie]

If I consider addons cheat you call me a dick.

Nobody called you that.

I am truly surprised at your response. It is as if you want to start a fight no matter what.

You make comments that we know won't work out, because we once made those mistakes. Part of advice is to tell people what they are doing that is correct. The other part is stopping them making mistakes. I only want your raid to succeed. I've been leading raids for over 6 years. I've probably made every mistake there is to make. I've told you what those mistakes are. It is up to you if you take my advice. If you think you know better, go ahead. Ban boss mods, analytical tools and action bar mods. Rely on the good in people, that they will perform without the need for encouragement. But I don't believe it will work out in the end.

I get the feeling you didn't actually read what Teng and I wrote. But then, you know better, don't you?

It is as if you want to start a fight no matter what.

You're the one with the pugnacious attitude. I have no intention of starting a fight.

[Reev]

I agree with Bov. He disagreed with you and presented an argument, starcruncher. He didn't call you a dick, as you say, nor was he even particularly condescending. He just presented an argument.

[Aggathon]

Ok. You wont be seeing any more posts from me. You took everything I said and picked it apart as if you know it all and I am a baby in a crib with a rattle, who stands in fire.

Not to that extent, but yes, we are some of the most experienced players that still play the game, many of us have been across all spectrums of the game. I've gone from ultra-casual-clicker don't know my rotation from a hole int he ground, to raider, to very hardcore raider, to leader of a casual guild, to leader of a hardcore guild, back down to casual guild leader, and now I'm in a VERY casual guild where I have no leadership position. I have "seen it all". To ignore our advice because it differs with yours is basically like picking up a guitar and trying to tell Slash that he doesn't know what he's doing and using picks is cheating.

The addon recount is an excellent learning tool and I said so in a previous post, if you paid as much attention to that as all the other things you are referring to in my previous posts. If I consider addons cheat you call me a dick.

We didn't ignore it, we're saying there's a logically inconsistency. ALL addons are great learning tools, they help you play the game better and be a better gamer. They are sanctioned by blizzard and not using them is like playing soccer without cleats because the extra traction you get is cheating. Wut?!

I am truly surprised at your response. It is as if you want to start a fight no matter what. I will not post here anymore. Fortunately I can still watch the Lore videos without all the negative interaction. I used to highly recommend this site to other members, but not anymore. I think I will warn them away from now on.

Go ahead, play the martyr, we're just trying to help, and when we disagree with you you throw up your arms, even after the helpful advice we've given you both in this thread and others? Did you ever think that MAYBE, just MAYBE we know what we're talking about and that maybe YOU should listen? Or are you the one that's close-minded?

[Theotherone]

This person reminds me of another poster who's name began with a T - wonder if they were twins separated at birth.