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Thread: PST Rapid Fire! Round 9

  1. #1

    PST Rapid Fire! Round 9

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  2. #2
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    Warning Lore

    You are starting to get time creep! Up to 36 mins.

  3. #3
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    My favorite twist was Marshall Windsor revealing that Lady Kathana Prestor was Onyxia--another quest chain you can't do any more, and alliance-only. (Also, less interesting after you did it dozens of times to help people who needed Onyxia attunement. But that first time was great.)

  4. #4
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    That wasn't nearly as much as a surprise if you read the novels, where Prestor is a commonly used last name by Black Dragons that disguise themselves as humans.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thels View Post
    That wasn't nearly as much as a surprise if you read the novels, where Prestor is a commonly used last name by Black Dragons that disguise themselves as humans.
    Or had a hunter with "Find Dragonkin" activated

  6. #6
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    The only problem I see with a crafting profession "catch up" is that the gathering profs will still need to work their way up gradually. So now, any miners, which may also be your blacksmith, has no use for all that leveling ore. Can't sell it if all the blacksmiths are just skipping to ghost iron. It would be especially bad if the catch up is more efficient than leveling it normally because if you are leveling a bs/miner, you would be better off vendoring all the ore you get until ghost iron.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    The only problem I see with a crafting profession "catch up" is that the gathering profs will still need to work their way up gradually. So now, any miners, which may also be your blacksmith, has no use for all that leveling ore. Can't sell it if all the blacksmiths are just skipping to ghost iron. It would be especially bad if the catch up is more efficient than leveling it normally because if you are leveling a bs/miner, you would be better off vendoring all the ore you get until ghost iron.
    Yea I can't tell you how miffed I am about this as I dropped Skinning for BS a week ago and spent almost 40,000g leveling up BS as quick as I could. The price of mid level ore was un friggin real when it was even on the AH. While Ghost Iron Ore is readily available and dirt cheap. It would've been nice to get a forshadow of this before I dumped most of my gold.

  8. #8
    Regarding the questions about always getting an item vs. only sometimes getting an item. Please google "Skinner Box" and "Variable Ratio Schedule". This explains why not getting a reward every time is less "boring" than getting something every time.

    Regarding the reroll on nerf question, sometimes the reality of class/spec power is not important and instead the perceptions of the playerbase are more important. If you like to group or raid, and your class/spec is not considered up to snuff you can find yourself having trouble getting a group/raid. It comes to the point that even if your class/spec is only slightly less than another class/spec that the crap that you get from other players can be a really good reason to reroll.

    Oh, Lore, you need to add a time zone converter to TankSpot so that you can just tell people to use the time zone converter there instead of googling it. More hits bro.
    Last edited by wormspeaker; 02-04-2013 at 01:56 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormspeaker View Post
    Regarding the questions about always getting an item vs. only sometimes getting an item. Please google "Skinner Box" and "Variable Ratio Schedule". This explains why not getting a reward every time is less "boring" than getting something every time.
    Something like a failsafe would be nice, though, especially when 5.2 is out, and people use the 5.0 LFRs to get into the 5.2 LFRs. Maybe something where you get tokens from the bags (but not with pieces), and the pieces would be available for tokens as well, but at high prices, like perhaps 20-32 tokens for an item (depending on the item). That way you know that even if no items drop for you, you at least are building up to eventually get yourself an upgrade. It would still leave the thrill of an item drop, because that would get you that item so much faster than having to wait for the tokens.

    Quote Originally Posted by wormspeaker View Post
    Oh, Lore, you need to add a time zone converter to TankSpot so that you can just tell people to use the time zone converter there instead of googling it. More hits bro.
    Or just learn GMT. Once you know what GMT zone you are in yourself, you can easily convert to any other GMT zone simply by means of subtraction. Lore seems to be at GMT -5, so when he calls out a time, add 5 hours, then add your GMT modifier, and you know the time.

  10. #10
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    Ugh, I writhe in pain to see you backing the "warlocks get a DH spec" malarkey. To quote a wall of text I made elsewhere.

    1) Adding DH to the warlock class would require allowing Night Elves to play as warlocks - they're the poster boy for DHs, they need to be part of it.

    2) Do they use caster or melee gear - both have huge ramifications.

    a)DH tree uses caster gear, at which point it becomes the only melee-dps to be using the caster hit system, making them bizarrely not value expertise - I'm sure the other melee would love that. In addition, you'd be having to roll caster stats into a melee spec - which is exactly what blizzard DON'T want to do with holy paladins - they prefer holy plate to this, which says a lot.

    b) DH tree uses leather, at which point warlocks become the only class in the game to be using a different armor type between one spec and another, a complete nightmare for gearing on multiple fronts.

    b i) How will LFR distribute loot? Will you be trying to gear up affliction and getting leather pieces constantly? Terrible.
    ii) Your gear between specs is completely uncompatible - something no other pure dps class has, and one of the major draws. Hybrids can switch specs to perform different roles, pures get to pick a spec based on what's best for the fight, you lose that if your gearset is none-existent. You're also now competing with agi users on gear - you'll probably need to pass on either cloth / leather depending on what you MS.

    3) is it a 4th spec or does it replace demonology

    a) If it replaces demonology, suddenly you've flat out killed a spec that a huge part of the warlock population was playing, it's been stolen from then in favor of something most of them never asked for

    b) It's a 4th spec - this risks making every "deserve" a 4th spec. This flat out can't happen, suddenly the gear issues mentioned in 2) is magnified 10x as the problem applies to every class now, the lines between classes start to blur and any hope of having balance goes out the window, since blizzard can barely manage to balance what they have now, let alone 11 more specs, additionally classes start stepping on each others toes. Where does the line between the ranged rogue spec and the melee hunter spec start to blur? They have enough trouble making each rogue spec feel unique without adding more across the board.

    4) You're trying to make an entire class fit into one spec of a well established class, it needs to live within that classes restrictions - which are already polar opposites to it by being a caster. At best you'll get a poor demon hunter, it's not satisfying the desires of anyone who wanted the class, because it's being cobbled together out of something that already exists. At worst, it breaks what it's trying to be latched onto, messing with the warlock class.

    5) The warlock class has just been revamped. It makes zero sense to go tampering with it again, if blizzard had any intention of making warlocks demon hunters, they would have done it with the MOP revamp, they would not have explicitly made demonology it's own thing, which it certainly is - it plays nothing like a demon hunter, it has a complete absence of melee play, wields caster weapons and plays like a caster. Meta be damned.
    It would seem like a no-brainer for blizzard to add DHs at one point, although I can understand the worry with making them not step on the toes of the wide array of melee-agi classes these days, I'd rather not see them playable than see them as a 4th warlock spec, which I think would be the absolute worst way to implement them - if they really feel the need to add a proper Warlock tanking spec, which I'm likewise not keen on - 4th specs are dangerous, then I'd rather they just made a warlock tanking spec - no need to slap a DH label on it when there's no way to make a satisfying demon hunter out of the warlock specs constraints.

  11. #11
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    I don't see an issue to adding a 4th spec to classes here and there. Druids currently have 4 specs. Do you see everyone rerolling to Druid now?

    I don't think Agility gear would be a decent option. It would be weird in combination with the other specs, and might make players think they need the Agility caster gear. Best just make it work out with cloth gear. They could perhaps have an ability rely on Spirit, so their gearset is somewhat different from their base set, and have a little more use for Spirit cloth.

    (And while Holy Priests/Disc Priests/Resto Druids/Resto Shamans can respec to Shadow Priests/Balance Druids/Elemental Shamans, Holy Paladins/Mistweaver Monks don't have a lot of use for their Int/Spirit gear when they respec.)

    If you add it as a 4th spec, there's no worries about losing one of the current specs that people might love, or having the existing class/3 specs be tampered with. The way the specs currently work means they can quite well tweak all specs separately.

    You're totally right about Night Elves then needing access to the class.

    And they should require some kind of Vengeance meganism, but for spellpower rather than attack power, of course.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thels View Post
    I don't see an issue to adding a 4th spec to classes here and there. Druids currently have 4 specs. Do you see everyone rerolling to Druid now?
    That's not my point, Druids got a 4th spec because they've had a 4th spec for years, it was just via talent choices - that makes sense.

    I'm not worried people will suddenly reroll, I'm worried suddenly other classes will feel entitled to a 4th spec, there's no way blizzard can add a 4th spec to every class, it simply won't work for a myriad reasons. Druids were pretty safe to add it to since they've had one longer than most people have played, adding them to classes that don't have them opens the door to people clamoring for one on their class. Blizzard have enough trouble differentiating the 3 rogue specs already, how can they fit a 4th in? Does it need to be a tank or healing spec, both of which sound ridiculous, or should it be a ranged spec? At which point, where does the line between the supposed ranged rogue spec and melee hunter spec start to blur?

    That's without going into all the gearing mess, the one good argument for Demon Hunters not being their own class is there isn't enough of a niche for another dual wielding melee class, which I can appreciate. But by that logic there isn't enough room for 10 or so more specs in the game.

    Warlocks getting a 4th tanking spec is worrisome purely because it opens the way to more, and the game can't handle everyone having a 4th spec. Warlocks don't have years of precedent like druids do.

    You're totally right about Night Elves then needing access to the class.
    Which unfortunately, is bending the lore to breaking point. Undead Paladins and Pandaren Deathknights make more sense. Mages was a stretch, warlocks snaps it.

    I don't think Agility gear would be a decent option. It would be weird in combination with the other specs, and might make players think they need the Agility caster gear. Best just make it work out with cloth gear. They could perhaps have an ability rely on Spirit, so their gearset is somewhat different from their base set, and have a little more use for Spirit cloth.
    I agree, but I don't think converting spirit -> tanking stats is much better. Plenty of people argue that spirit plate is a bad idea, and they're right - but blizzard prefer spirit plate to the messy antics of converting str plate into healing stats. It would seem really hard to balance a warlock tank if it's not following the tanking model.

    And, as I said before, I've not got so much of a problem with warlock tanks, not something I want, but I'm not vehemently against it or anything, I do have a problem with giving said hypothetical tanking spec the "demon hunter" label - because how can you possibly fit the iconic, dodging, dual wielding night elf look into the warlock model without some serious sacrifices, either on the DH side or the Warlock side.

  13. #13
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    I could see warlocks getting the Demon Hunting spec next expansion, along with several other classes getting fourth specs. My reasoning being that every expansion bliz has done something with classes, even if it's something simple. BC gave horde/alliance pallys/shamans, wrath added DKs, cata expanded which races could play which class, and mop gave us monks.

    So for the next expansion it could be more specs, especially since they've already set the precedence of classes having more than 3 specs with druids. And it'd probably be too soon to add another new class.

  14. #14
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    Rogues could be an evasion kind of tank, but it's more likely they stay pure DPS. An Archery tree could work quite well for them, and I don't see how that overlaps with Hunters, considering their reliance on combo points and poisons. It would be an annoying soloing spec, as you don't have a pet to keep mobs at a distance, but since you can shoot in melee nowadays, that's probably not that much of an issue.

    Warriors, being the icon tanking class, could get a second tanking spec.

    DKs and Paladins could get a casting spec to have more use for all that intellect plate.

    Monks could have a second DPS spec, either another melee with different mechanics or a caster spec.

    Priests could get a holy DPS spec.

    There's plenty of interesting options to add to the existing classes. I wouldn't be surprised if we'd see some of them appearing over time.

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