Volatile PUG tanks: How do the healers deal?

[Wooky]

I'm a healer who's been the recipient of some of the most nasty and volatile tanks in PUGs (as I'm sure most of you have as well). I'll give it a rough order of magnitude and say 30% of the time I'll be grouped with these 'types.' The 'types' in referring to are the know-it-all, raging (likely the ones who scream on vent/mumble), lunatics who expect epic heals while they ignore their CDs, and stand in "the business."

When I solicit support from the DPS, I usually get silence - which I assume means they would rather enable them because they don't want to sit in a queue for another 20 minutes.

Things you should know:
I'm the GM of a guild with 6 IRLs, most of which are never online which is why I queue for PUGs in the first place
I'm not a very strong typist
I'm too damn stubborn to leave the party

So how do other healers deal?

[Fetzie]

I'm too damn stubborn to leave the party

There's your problem. You don't get the deserter debuff if you leave after killing a boss. You get an instant invite (or as good as instant) as a healer. Tell him to pipe down or you are out. If he doesn't pipe down, leave, and re-queue.

[Wooky]

good point thanks.

[marklar]

i haven't had that problem too often, although i don't do 5-mans anymore. when i have gotten a terrible tank, the first thing i do is inspect them - you might be horrified at what you see. in those cases, i'll say something in party chat like, "how were you able to queue for this with that gear?"

a comment like that (if deserved) is usually enough to win the rest of the party to your side. then you can initiate a vote-kick with a good chance of success. if it fails, just leave; healers don't have queues, and what's the point in playing the game with someone like that?

the worst thing you can do is get in a flame war with the tank - then you both look like asshats to the rest of the party.

[Theotherone]

For the most part I haven't had that issue since the Troll heroics; but I would usually just let the tank go down, then after the wipe just go afk while dead and grab a drink or watch some tv until I got kicked. Or just after the tank rages, you initiate a vote kick against the tank, but don't say anything, the dps will usually just mindlessly hit yes.

[Leucifer]

Well.... my two cents.

1) Fetz's point is spot on. If you don't wanna deal, roll out.

2) If it's an issue of bad gear..... first, check yourself. Are they a new tank? I mean.... if you're expecting everyone to be rolling in full raid gear or heroic gear, YOU are being unreaslistic. If it's bad tank play..... like somehow they can't hold threat on ANYTHING and it's peeling off to you... ask them what's up. If they're a new tank, or inexperienced.... ask yourself, "Do I want to do this?"

3) If it's bad attitude.... entirely different matter. In that case, it's like trying to win an argument on the internet..... it only matters so long as you engage with them. Might be best to walk away or submit a vote-kick. you might be surprised how many other people are probably irritated with their bullsh*t also.

4) And I see this one more frequently..... the dps that queues as a heals/tank and then either tries to skip out on the duty.... or plays so shitty that someone else volunteers to take over. In that case.... if it's pretty obvious.... vote kick, or just roll. Don't support that habit by tolerating it.

[captanmurdoc]

i havent had a problem with this since wrath really. one or 2 since cata released and i just do 1 of 2 things depending on the mood im in, vote kick and if it doesnt go through drop group or if im in a bad mood try to make them rage as hard as i can and laugh as I carry them through a run, sometimes even going tank spec depending on which toon im on. Keep in mind though this only applies to geared tanks who are acting like know it alls, not new players. im probably the most patient person in this game with new people and ill stick with them till they get it down offering tips and help until i cant afford to repair again.

[Wooky]

Excellent points all. I'll work on walking away from the situation and being less defensive - I feel there should be some kind of honor or decency - but I see now that my expectations are loads higher than they should be.

[IncD]

Hey, thought I would toss my hat in the ring. I'm a DPS, and that about all I play, because that's what I like to play. Also, I use LFR, cause I usually play with IRL friends who don't have any interest outside of PvP and leveling alts.

Anyhow, for H's and LFR's, on my server it's about a 8-15 min wait. I've noticed recently, especially in LFR, that the amount of suck-tanks is especially high. I don't mean under-geared, or new, because, hey, everyone has to start somewhere, so it's all good. I mean like rage, all caps, shouty tanks. Just generally horrible people that ruin it for others. If a fight is a little harder because someone is new, you don't try to vote kick them! How is that person suppose to ever gear up, or even want to with that kinda adversity? And no, I am not talking about me.

So when I see that stuff, I usually resort to saying "Just do your damned job, and everyone else will do theirs" right off because I've lost all patience with suck-tanks. I don't know why it's usually tanks! I imagine healing is difficult, and I didn't just walk into a mostly geared toon, I had to work too, usually with tank/healer DPS derision. Again, all good, I play what I want and so should you.

Oh, I am getting to TL;DR length so to wrap it up, if you have a tank, or anyone really, that is messing with the party chi, ask them to settle. If I think we can finish anyways, I just ignore the ranting and play. If I don't think we can finish because of another players attitude, I do a vote kick. I have to wait anyways if I leave, so why not? Failing that, I ignore the offending person (I think that actually lowers, if not removes the chance you will play with them again), then leave. I mean, Madness of Deathwing is a 10 min fight, so I will wait 10 mins for another group instead of wiping and incurring a repair bill.

[Fetzie]

I don't know why it's usually tanks!

Because you can heal LFR with two healers so if 4 of the six suck nobody notices, and nobody cares that (don't need an "if" here for LFR) half the dps suck and do less damage than a player starting leveling in Borean Tundra despite having an item level above 390 equipped because it doesn't alter the outcome of the fight in any way, shape or form. But you notice immediately if the tank can't tank/is new/has less gear because the mobs are running around, tactics aren't known or he dies to spike damage.

[IncD]

But what do you do when the tank is a rageaholic was the question, and you didn't answer that.

[Fetzie]

But what do you do when the tank is a rageaholic was the question, and you didn't answer that.

There's your problem. You don't get the deserter debuff if you leave after killing a boss. You get an instant invite (or as good as instant) as a healer. Tell him to pipe down or you are out. If he doesn't pipe down, leave, and re-queue.

Yes I did. In the first post after the OP.

[IncD]

Touche

[Vong]

/ignore So you won't get queued again with that particular nub. Seen some horrendous tanks lately and with me being a "new" healer on a resto Druid it is or can be a nightmare. I always inspect tank if his gear is low end I will give him a chance. I've had some awersome tanks in blues walking thru heroics and some epic 397+ tanks dropping like lead balloons.

[Reclzz]

I usually play tank and sometimes i'm the raging lunatic, but only when i've had 7 heroics in a row with hunters and warlocks who refuse to toggle off auto growl or when i ask nicely reply with "mind your own f***ing business" or when full hc geared people slack and do 12k dps instead off 40k or only have 20% up time in a dungeon.

As for healers, i'm very forgiving as i know it's a tough job, especially with bad gear.

So if you do your job and the tank bitches anyways, vote kick him or leave, not worth the grief..

[Tengenstein]

Badpet is an awesome addon for tanks, its broadcasts to the idiot/party/raid every time a pet does something it shouldn't do, like Growl/thunderstop/suffering/stampede or when they get melee hit. it does get really spammy with idiots but its very visible to the group about how idiots are idiots

[Vircinix]

I tank mainly but I do like to heal so I'm very tolerant of bad healing. A lot of times heals is still learning. When I hit the Cata dungeons healing it was a very rude awakening. At the beginning of a dungeon I always ask if heals is ready. I don't go until they tell me to. I try to watch their mana because I don't like surprises. I actually think healing is a bit harder than tanking especially the higher you go.
Be nice to your healer, your tank life depends upon it.

[Tielyn]

There are a LOT of bad people who play this game, because they made it so accessible to people of all skillsets. As a raiding guild GM and frequent pugger (I have 'The Patient' on all of my end-level characters), I have to deal with a lot of people who have buttons, who know at least what they do, but don't, and likely won't, ever have the skill to use 'em to the effective degree that will perform their role.

DPS get yelled at for pulling horrible DPS, face-pulling stuff, and for occasionally killing the raid. But losing one because they're standing in fire doesn't always mean a wipe.

Healers get yelled at when the tank takes too much damage and dies. That's the muddy grey area -- did we die because the healer couldn't keep up, because the tank was stupid/undergeared/wasn't using their Active Mitigations right (or at all), or both?

Tanks get yelled at the least, mostly because they get away with doing lousy DPS, and they can stand in stuff for a few seconds before they start taking real damage, and the healer sometimes has to go OOM before they notice. They have been in groups before you where they could go gonzo speedrun pull, and get away with it because the healer is raid-geared and is used to healing 10 people all standing in fire and not flinch. So it's Never Been Their Fault(tm).

Never mind that with the advent of Active Mitigation, it really is more than 'stand there and taunt and faceroll random buttons.' Never mind that a lot of bosses in even 5 mans require some sort of technical prowess to down, and every dungeon has at least one 'move or die' mechanic.

Case in point: Armsmaster Harlan. I have heard so many tanks complain that that fight is too hard. That they hate the fight with a passion. And I have seen so many tanks screw it up.

Never mind that the three big things that go wrong in the fight are:
- The tank gets caught in the Whirlwind. This should _never_ happen once you figure out the mechanic, which is put on your screen in giant yellow letters every time you get caught.
- The healer gets caught in the Whirlwind. That, you can't help. And to be fair, sometimes everyone gets caught in the whirlwind through no fault of their own -- I actually got snagged while standing on the top level before he went on his tour, because I was in Demon form and apparently my hit box is big enough that I got caught by the top of the whirlwind, but if I'm just a 'lock in gnome form, I can't see over the lip to cast a spell. >.<
- The healer gets eaten by adds. This is the tank's fault. Even with the damage bubble thingy the adds have, you have the tools to get them off your healer. You should never leave them on the healer full time, because if the healer dies, you die, that's a wipe.

If, when I'm healing, I get eaten by adds once, I say, 'Hey, can you keep the adds off of me this time?'
If I get eaten again, I say, "I can't heal you with these adds on me."
Three times is my limit for that sort of thing. Because if the tank can't do his/her job, you can't do yours, and it's just a waste of your time, theirs, and the DPS. And you have every right to leave. Especially if the tank is blaming you.

And on that fight, there was one tank who I wound up warlock tanking the adds, because he didn't bother, even though I was telling him to keep the adds off the healer, and then I'd wind up tanking Harlan because he'd get caught in the whirlwind and die. And then the DPS ... blamed the healer. Who left, and rightfully so.

I tank more than I heal these days. And if I see the healer is below half mana, I stop. If I'm going to do something crazy like jump over the edge on Scholo or for Glintrok, I stop and warn people I'm going to do it first. And if I've put my healer through undue stress, I always thank 'em afterwards.

You, as the healer, have one of the most thankless jobs in the game. You get the most blame for doing the most work, and I for one want folks like you healing me, undergeared or not, because at least I know you care about what you're doing, and if you're undergeared, I have tools to help compensate for that. I've been known to hang onto a healer for multiple dungeons if I see they need the gear, too, and just haven't found a competent tank.

*salutes*
-Tielyn

[Dreador]

For arms master, if the healer gets eaten by adds while he's up top and the tank is down below that's his own fault. Luckily we have second wind for when the squishy decides not to stand close.