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Thread: PST Rapid Fire! Round 6

  1. #21
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    But if you use LFR, you can be in the situation I just had. (Edit: And still have, I guess)

    Went six weeks with no drops in LFR.
    Had 6 elder tokens this week. Spent all of them trying to get the weapon. 6 tokens plus first kill drop = essentially 7 more "weeks" and no weapon. 13 weeks without the drop I need.

    RNG is RNG. It could just have easily been a case of getting four piece and a weapon in my first week. I get that. However, LFR is a poor catch up mechanic with a weekly lockout.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  2. #22
    or alternatively
    1. Run 5 mans to 463 or better
    2. Run MSV LFR or otherwise until 470
    3. Run HoF/Terrace until 480 geared
    Saying "Just run LFR until 470" is like saying "Just win the lottery for your retirement".

  3. #23
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    Or, you could...you know...join a pug in trade chat and go clear mogushan normal and get level 489 items. I'm seeing HoF and ToES PuGs going too (and they clear Terrace too!). I've done "elite" protectors in a PuG, and that drops 503 item level gear.

  4. #24
    Or, you could...you know...join a pug in trade chat and go clear mogushan normal and get level 489 items. I'm seeing HoF and ToES PuGs going too (and they clear Terrace too!).
    You mean the pugs that want you to be in 480-485 gear minimum to get into MSV? C'mon, don't pretend like you don't know that anyone in 450-463 blues will be laughed out of pugs.

  5. #25
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    PuGs usually won't take me with a 475 gear level and only cleared 4/6. And once 5.2 is out, the trend in the past is that nobody will run it anymore...at least not without an even further demand on overgearing it for a "quick clear".
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    But if you use LFR, you can be in the situation I just had. (Edit: And still have, I guess)

    Went six weeks with no drops in LFR.
    Had 6 elder tokens this week. Spent all of them trying to get the weapon. 6 tokens plus first kill drop = essentially 7 more "weeks" and no weapon. 13 weeks without the drop I need.

    RNG is RNG. It could just have easily been a case of getting four piece and a weapon in my first week. I get that. However, LFR is a poor catch up mechanic with a weekly lockout.
    Except they;re upping the drop rates when t15 comes out so expect 30% more loot or something.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  7. #27
    Except they;re upping the drop rates when t15 comes out so expect 30% more loot or something.
    Wonder what the item level requirement will be for T15 LFR. With no 5-mans to gear up in.

    And 130% of zero is still zero.

    Why, exactly, was it so awful for people to just gear up in 5-mans?

  8. #28
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  9. #29
    480 seems like a light year away, ugh. ><

  10. #30
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    Of course, while you're grinding the rep, you'll run LFR as much as you can, but if you just dinged 90, you can only run LFR MSV. Decking yourself out in 463 gear is easy enough, and of course you can have your chest/gloves crafted, but that's about it.

    You'll run LFR (the ones you can do) every week, but that doesn't guarantee you get gear, especially since at the start you can only run MSV. I've had non-raiding guildies who took months before they could join HoF/ToES LFR, due to the ilvl requirement.

    You'll kill the outdoor world bosses (all four of them) every week, but that doesn't guarantee you get gear.

    Of course you join any MSV/HoF/ToES pug you can get in to, which won't be many, if at all. Should they really take you over someone who has at least a few items from Tier 15 LFR? This likely will not give you any gear because you won't be getting into them.

    So while hoping for the best to get gear from LFR/World bosses, and farming the 5.2 dailies to spend your valor on the 5.2 items, you're still forced to gring the 5.0 and 5.1 dailies asap, and the moment you hit Honored/Revered, buy all the items that are still an upgrade to you, grinding more JP if need be. If you don't, it can easily take months before you can get into Tier 15 LFR.

    And sure, the Tier 14 LFR droprate is increased, but that's far from a guarantee!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    480 seems like a light year away, ugh. ><
    With +30% drop rates in LFR, it won't be too bad. :P

  12. #32
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    I've personally flipped a coin and gotten the same side more than 10 times in a row. Let's be honest, some people are still going to get screwed by a weekly lockout.

    Even 50% can have a horrible run. When your only choices are RNG and a huge grind...I can understand wanting another option.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    I've personally flipped a coin and gotten the same side more than 10 times in a row. Let's be honest, some people are still going to get screwed by a weekly lockout.

    Even 50% can have a horrible run. When your only choices are RNG and a huge grind...I can understand wanting another option.
    I understand it too heck ive had terrible luck with drops. But I do see that the 2 current methods come down to the luck based system and the effort/time based system. And i dont really see what a third option could be, you cant hybridize them because anything that depends at all on luck is still a luck based system, and anything that is garanteed is going to compete directly with the effort/timebased daily system. So any third option is really just going to replace one of the other 2 existing ones. In that light i think the swap to items to jp which can be grinded is really not a bad solution since at least you can then gather that guaranteed material while trying for some lucky drops. Two other important things to keep in mind is that since valor will convert to jp at cap it will be alot easier to get jp that is is now, and that you only need to grind most reps to honored to begin getting rewards (and they may change the rep requirement on stuff along with this for all we know) and your likely to be getting 2x rep from the rep your main already did. I dont see it being a serious problem for alts to gear up relativly quickly. Sure a new players going to take longer, but then a fresh first time 90 SHOULD get to spend some time in all the content, not get a shortcut to the end of the end game.

  14. #34
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    The big problem about LFR as a catch up meganism is that you run them every tuesday/wednesday, and then are done for the week, waiting for the next tuesday/wednesday so you can run them one more time. If the catch up meganism only allows you to work on catching up 2 hours per week, it's going to leave you with nothing else to do.

    Unless you include the dailies and assume the items go for JP, at which time you jump from "Having nothing to do after the first two hours per week" to "must grind all dailies of every faction every day so I can buy the items for the slots that won't drop for me during the coming weeks of LFR".

    It would be nice if there was an option with a little less daily investment that would provide a guaranteed way to gear yourself up. Well, perhaps there is. Arena to cap conquest every week and decking yourself out in PvP gear probably works.

  15. #35
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    Removing/reducing the lockout is the better way. That way you can mitigate the effect of RNG by putting in extra effort in the event you get unlucky. I don't really buy that you should have to spend time in old content to get to real raiding (because thats a really slippery slope and where the 'old content' that someone 'should' do to rejoin raiding is entirely subjective) but even if one accepts that it doesn't require also being gated in progression by RL time in addition to the time spent grinding the content.

  16. #36
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    Removing the lockout just puts you in the same position that people are complaining about with the jp option, instead of having to do massive investment to get the jp and rep you need to buy gear youl just have the same massive investment to grind lfr again and again and again. I wouldnt be opposed to a shorter lockout though, ive often been in the position where ive ran my raid finder for the week so if were not doing real raids at that time then my only real option is just to do some dailies. But only for the lower end raid finder, the current tier should remain at its 1 week lockout i think.

    I dont feel that the slope is that slippery, im talking about people doing the stuff thats still available in raid finder, which is more or less what blizzard intends to be the active content anyway.

    And just to be clear i didnt mean that people 'should' do the content as some sort of dues paying or any sort of feeling that if i worked for it so should they or anything like that. I mean that they should GET, to do the old content, if they hit 90 and can shoot to the edge of progression in a week without hitting any of the older stuff then they will, thats how most players work. But in doing so they lose out on the experience of all the content that was in the expansion prior to the patch that they happen to ding 90 in which is a shame. Especially in a tier like this one which has so many bosses (and fun ones) that their missing out on. All im saying is that if you use cata as an example, someone who hit 85 during dragonsoul probably would have in the long term appreciated a reason to go through some of the other raids a bit before starting their dragon soul progression. There were some neat and fun bosses in the earlier tiers of cata, and if theyd had a legitimate reason to go fight them i think they probably would have, and would have ultimately had more fun than they did just doing the one tier right out of heroics.

  17. #37
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    dk2300, I don't disagree with that. The part Blizzard has to be careful about though is locking some people into that content for any reason. For instance, if they are relying on ONLY that content to move to other content, you risk stratifying your player-base.

    For instance. If the only real way for me to acquire the gear to get into DS is through FL raid finder, then I can get stuck there due to RNG. If I am, then I am probably not alone. However, you have a rapidly decreasing pool of players who will even run that content. This makes it progressively harder for me to get the gear even on top of the bad RNG I've had.

    Even worse, what if I'm stuck in T11 while current content is DS? How long are my queues going to be for lfr? If I have bad RNG, I could get seriously stuck. There will periodically be alts and whatnot coming through so that I get some queues, but everyone with below average RNG on loot runs the chance of having a very diluted pool of players even running the content. On smaller servers/battlegroups, this could be terrible.

    Judging by recent observation of the Blizzard method, they would then add incentives for more current players to come back to the content. That has two problems...one, they have probably run that content to death and don't want to be there. We all see the problems with that. Two, if they are making current players come back to the content, why are you getting catch-up toons stuck there in the first place if they are coming back to the content regardless of their gear?
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  18. #38
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    I agree that its something they have to be careful about, but thats why there is always 2 systems, raid finder, and valor. Since valor is guaranteed and you earn valor while in raid finder, then its more or less impossible to get permanently "stuck". Especially since their lowering the cost of that tier of valor items when the patch hits as well as uping the drop rate of the raid finder loot.

    There is ofcourse a decline in how easy it is to form groups as the expansion progresses, but much like heroics now while theres no reason for most endgame players to run them, you can still get a group in a reasonable amount of time most of the time. Alts will run them, enchanters lookin to DE stuff will run them, people on the legendary quest chain will run them (alot), and people may even run them just to get the potions or whatever it turns out to be that they keep promising to add to the gold bag you curently get. People are also having a hard time gearing offspecs at the moment so you may even get people who are curent tier raiding mainspec but still tryin to catchup their offspecs runing through previous tier raidfinder in their alt spec which they didnt feel compfortable doing when it was the current tear, i know i fit in this category.

  19. #39
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    But remember that for dungeons, you only need 4 people looking for any dungeon. For raid finder you need 24 people looking for the same LFR.

    Sure, some people will be looking for specific dungeons, but they'll be queued with people looking for random dungeons, so even they add some numbers to the pool.

    I can only use a few OS items from 2 LFR instances. I run those 2 LFRs and then run 1 dungeon and 1 scenario per day to my valor cap. I don't see a point of running more LFRs.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thels View Post
    But remember that for dungeons, you only need 4 people looking for any dungeon. For raid finder you need 24 people looking for the same LFR.
    True, but heavily affected by your role (tank/healer or dps) i suspect that even when the time increases raid finder will still be shorter queues on average for a dps. Im not saying it wont be longer ques in general, but i dont think thats a reason not to run them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thels View Post
    Sure, some people will be looking for specific dungeons, but they'll be queued with people looking for random dungeons, so even they add some numbers to the pool.
    Im not really sure what your point here is, care to elaborate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thels View Post
    I can only use a few OS items from 2 LFR instances. I run those 2 LFRs and then run 1 dungeon and 1 scenario per day to my valor cap. I don't see a point of running more LFRs.
    Isnt that what your doing right now? Im not sure what this part is in response to?
    Last edited by dk2300; 01-24-2013 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Clarification

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