The Weekly Marmot - Is LFR Dropping Enough Loot?

[Lore]

[Toypop]

I'd like a currency system but it doesn't have that addictive random side to it that a percentage of players (not me I might add) seem to find compulsive. I am not sure what percentage of players are addicted to that system, certainly in forum discussions there is always a lot of support for it. Not sure that support extends to the "real" player base of WoW who don't post on forums but Blizzard are very keen on random reward systems for a reason...

All we really need is a way to replicate the loot systems used by organised guilds. Not so much replicate the system but replicate the effect of the system.

The loot systems used in organised guilds provides a more predictable and equal distribution of loot. It kind of smooths out the rate at which you win gear and whenever you lose out on an item your chances increase the next time. That for me is the key point - your win chance in a guild increases over time so long as you turn up often.

Simple as that really, your win chance must increase each time you kill the boss. That chance must not decay when you win items and obviously ramp up slowly so that we don't gear too fast. The reason I say it must not decay is because as Lore said, players get duplicate items or even items that are bad for their role (I see Hpriests complaining about getting lots of non-spirit gear/weapons).

So start off with a win chance of 15%. Then over a period of 16 weeks (16 kills of the boss concerned by the player) gradually have it ramp up to 50%?

Only possible issue could be the impact on shard prices.

[Deandia]

Lore, this episode really has hit a sore spot for me. I have simply never been lucky when it comes to gear drops. I have run LFR's Normal and Heroic raids and have been screwed so many times by the game system, other players and even raid leaders that I no longer will be doing any of that content, ever again.

[erghjunk]

good episode, Lore. It bothers the shit out of me that who gets loot in LFR is a "secret." Beyond the first time you run LFR, the entire point is loot. why oh why is it hidden? thanks again.

[Dartrianis]

I would love to be able to have a "choice" for example instead of rolling 1 coin for a random chance i would not mind having the choice to roll all 3 coins to guaranty loot that my class/spec can used. I know most would use that option to get a better chance on that 1 special item but at least having 1 piece of gear a week is probably better than allot of people are getting.

[Krinsta]

I get heaps of gear in LFR I'd like to be able to accept or reject gear if it could be allocated to someone else. It seems a waste to vender those random drops that you don't have to use your greater charms for. I'd rather have extra valor instead of gold in the fail bag to buy rep gear or BOA 20 gold is bugger all and not a step toward improving my gear or the gear of my Druid tank. I get more gold selling a stack of fish it's hardly representative of the effort and time spent waiting in the que for 30 minutes, grinding to get lesser charms and valor would at least be a step toward a gear upgrade.

[Gulaag]

The real problem isn't that the drop rates are too low it is that gamin has now taken hold of this "give me everything" mentality and those players don't want to spend time to get gear they just want BIS for their play style.

[Theotherone]

Personally, I liked the old system better, something about seeing the item you want drop and the excitment of the roll that appeals to me. I had no issue with trading or with people rolling on items they had or if they had "better", everyone helped kill the boss. All the QQ about guilds running to gear up guildies was irrelevant to me, they had no impact on my chances to win; my odds stayed the same and the fact that someone else had more rolls because of friends extra "rolls" was irrelevant - I didn't win so I could care less who did win. Plus, it's an MMO, friends help friends.

Plus the added bonus was the drama, it was hilarious - people acting like these purple pixels were life and death. It was so childish and stupid that it made it worth the price of admission.

The current systems is fine and rng is rng it's part of MMOs and keeps me coming back. So far my pally got the healing mace off Empress first kill in lfr, but only has his two piece. My hunter can't get a weapon drop, but does have the Legendary gem and his 4 piece.

We all have stories of the piece that wouldn't drop - for me it was 27 H Morchok kills before I got the heroic plate healing boots. Proabably 30 weeks (couple raids where I was on vacation); over half a year. 27 weeks for boots, but 1 kill for Sha weapon. RNG is RNG.

Most of the loot whiners on official boards won't be happy until Blizz impliments loot menus - kill boss, menu drops, pick your loot. Then once they gear up in 5 weeks, they'll whine "there's nothing to do....."

I guess I just find loot drama on the whole completely stupid; how's the Deathbringer's Will working for you these days.

[Bythedar]

My biggest pet peeve is that if I want tank loot, I have to go in as a tank (unless I am a monk/druid). I would love to be able to get faster queues by queuing as a healer (thus speading everyone's queues) and clicking "Give me tank gear instead".

[Tengenstein]

I'd like if LFR didn't drop upgrades from 5man HCs. I just don't like raiding with rogues that can't tricks or tanks that think taunting on CD is how you tank. actual LFR fine, but i'd rather run with 24 NPCs.

[Fetzie]

My biggest pet peeve is that if I want tank loot, I have to go in as a tank (unless I am a monk/druid). I would love to be able to get faster queues by queuing as a healer (thus speading everyone's queues) and clicking "Give me tank gear instead".

My biggest peeve is that if I want tanking gear from LFR I have to run it in ret spec.

[Bythedar]

My biggest peeve is that if I want tanking gear from LFR I have to run it in ret spec.

Can you explain this, please? I was under the assumption that if you wanted tank gear as a paladin, you had to take the very long tank queues because otherwise you would get dps gear or healing gear. Am I wrong in this? If you were being facetious, I apologize.

[sifuedition]

For my pally, I have a double problem with that. DPS queues are usually faster than tank queues and dps gear (haste/mastery) is usually better than the "tanking" gear. I end up queueing as dps, then on a fight by fight basis determining if there is better "tank" gear or "dps" gear available on a fight. For instance, on one fight there is a tank trinket and one hander that can drop. On another, there are haste/mastery bracers and cloak. If it's "dps" gear that I can use for prot, I can go ret and try to get it. If it's "tank" gear like the trinket and one hander, well, I had to queue dps so I can be ret on those fights that drop haste/mastery gear so now I have to dps in prot spec to try to get a roll on the gear I need.

Sucks that I have to game the system to get rolls on the gear I need. Sucks worse when I'm NOT bottom damage/dps most of the time.

Edit:
Fetzie was referring to exactly what I mentioned here. Haste/mastery gear is better for prot pally than dodge/parry gear. Likewise for haste/hit or haste/expertise. That stuff is usually classified as "dps" gear, however, so if you want it for tanking, you need to be in ret spec or you don't get to roll for that piece. Just to make it difficult, the same queue may also have the boss that drops a tank trinket so you are already in as dps but now you need to be in prot spec if you want a chance to roll for that trinket, so you dps in prot spec for that fight.

[Theotherone]

Wait, if I want tank gear I can que as dps, but be in tank spec? The system recognizes spec now, not your role choice? I had heard rumor of this but was not sure it was true.

[Bythedar]

Ah, thank you. I was still living back before this expansion, believing that tank plate gear was still better for plate tanks. I know that I wish I could, on my monk, roll in as a healer for instant queues and still get the tanking/dps gear that I need. Would be a win/win for everyone.

[Tengenstein]

Wait, if I want tank gear I can que as dps, but be in tank spec? The system recognizes spec now, not your role choice? I had heard rumor of this but was not sure it was true.

yes. spec is important not role. if you use the dungeon journal and look at the loot and filter by specs you see the actuall loot tables LFR uses. so as an arms warrior i don't have the chance to get 1h weapons, but as fury i do. so as MS prot i really ought to do Sha of fear as Fury since i still would have acces to all the loots he drops for my MS and my OS

[sifuedition]

Theotherone, I wish I could truly confirm that. I have been doing it based on people saying it works. Since I never seem to win any loot, I couldn't say either way personally. I tend to go 4-10 weeks with nothing and then get 4 pieces in a week kind of thing. Haven't won anything in so long I can't confirm.

[Theotherone]

Thanks, I'm going to try it.

Seems that if you can play the system this way, Blizz should just let you choose what spec you want gear for that run in lfr as someone mentioned above.

[Toypop]

All the QQ about guilds running to gear up guildies was irrelevant to me, they had no impact on my chances to win; my odds stayed the same

Unfortunately that was a piece of flawed reasoning emanating from the official forums that has since spread and been regarded as "fact".

It is flawed because it assumes that were the colluding players replaced with purely random independent minded players, that 100% of those new independent players need the same items as you.

I am sure you can see the error.

The "hijacked" groups as Blizzard called them had the same win chances as the "worse case scenario" random group. In reality a fully random group would have offered you better odds for the majority of the time.

[sifuedition]

Except for paladins, we need both. On main slots, we want haste/mastery. For trinkets, we still want typical tank stuff. Usually, the bosses in an lfr queue split. One fight has a haste/mastery bracer or back I want which would be "dps" and another has a one hander or trinket which would be "tank". Only way for me to have a chance at both, which would be used for tanking, is to queue dps so that I have the freedom to change spec from fight to fight.

Having said that, I can see the benefit for a lot of others to add the "preferred gear" dropdown or w/e. Healers getting dps gear, w/e.