The Weekly Marmot - Are We Too Smart for MMOs?

[wormspeaker]

Your "not-wow" sounded an awful lot like GW2

I suppose you're right. At least on a superficial level it is similar. GW2 attempts to move MMOs towards a more action oriented combat style while still straddling the existing MMO style combat.

[Bovinity]

GW2 attempts to move MMOs towards a more action oriented combat style while still straddling the existing MMO style combat.

You know, this topic comes up a lot on the MMO-C boards as well, and it really annoys me. GW2 isn't really an "action-oriented" game any more than most other MMO's are. Oh sure, it seems that way because there's no tanks, no healers, and every mob in the game hits like friggin' Gormok the Impaler, so you spend the game just running and kiting and dodge rolling every 2 seconds (like you would if you tried to run an instance in WoW without a tank or a healer, just 5 hunters) but it's not "action-oriented" in the way that a true FPS or something would be.

/derail

[Bovinity]

In other news: Leucifer makes some good points there. The raiding community really has tried VERY hard to turn raiding into a "Hunting Deer with laser-guided missiles in a fenced-in area." situation. That then leads to the question, "As a designer, is it Blizzards' responsibility to present us with Deer that are capable of defeating our missiles?"

To be fair, they've tried. For example, Shadow Orbs on Sinestra were difficult (or impossible) to track with the standard raiding mods, so it really did become a matter of paying attention, planning ahead, and dealing with the situation.

On the other hand, how hard should they try? Apparently there's still a very large percentage of the community that still cannot even properly execute in LFR, so just how many Missile-Defeating-Deer can you throw at them before their inactive little brains explode?

The happy-medium that they've tried to reach is a game where MOST of the content is a pushover to the best players and still challenging to the "LFR Masses" while still having a significant challenge - typically at/near the end - for the best players to really show their stuff. And to be fair, despite his snarkiness, Leucifer does have a point in regards to the, "talking about being too smart for the game, but stumbling on the tough content." issue. =D

Does it work? Eh, nothing will ever be perfect. There's too many people to try to make happy.

[Airowird]

Brawler's Guild is a perfect example of the Deer-you-don't-need-laser-guide-missiles-for type of content.

Who care's if you don't watch videos etc beforehand, you don't ruin anyone else's game!
To a lesser extent, you can find some like minded people and do Challenge modes with them without reading guides before hand (because usually it ends up being "you need X class and Y talents")

[wormspeaker]

You know, this topic comes up a lot on the MMO-C boards as well, and it really annoys me. GW2 isn't really an "action-oriented" game any more than most other MMO's are. Oh sure, it seems that way because there's no tanks, no healers, and every mob in the game hits like friggin' Gormok the Impaler, so you spend the game just running and kiting and dodge rolling every 2 seconds (like you would if you tried to run an instance in WoW without a tank or a healer, just 5 hunters) but it's not "action-oriented" in the way that a true FPS or something would be.
/derail

I don't disagree. That's the main reason I don't play GW2. However, I would say that it is more action oriented than most MMORPGs in that they do allow you to actively dodge and LoS things in PvP*, which is a significant difference from WoW but not enough to really make it a true Action RPG.

(It's not that you can't do that in WoW, but the mechanics make it that doing so is the exception rather than the rule.)

[Ion]

I don't disagree. That's the main reason I don't play GW2. However, I would say that it is more action oriented than most MMORPGs in that they do allow you to actively dodge and LoS things in PvP*, which is a significant difference from WoW but not enough to really make it a true Action RPG.

(It's not that you can't do that in WoW, but the mechanics make it that doing so is the exception rather than the rule.)

I'd say it's not the mechanics so much as the places wherein you generally PvP. And try to tell people involved in a ranged vs melee fight that "actively dodging" isn't involved in WoW PvP.

Not that you're doing that sort of thing much/at all in WoW PvE, however, which is definitely distinct from GW2...but encounter complexity is considerably different between the two there in other ways.