+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46

Thread: The Weekly Marmot - Are We Too Smart for MMOs?

  1. #1

    The Weekly Marmot - Are We Too Smart for MMOs?

    Follow me on Twitter | Facebook | Google+

  2. #2
    i'd love to see boss mods and encounter guides (sorry!) go away, and therefore also LFR and the dungeon journal. this would help with bringing back that feel you're talking about. dont think its likely though

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    29
    I blame the Gnomes for reverse engineering the game mechanics and mathing it all out.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14
    Today's boss encounters are just too complex for most guilds to kill without guides. Half the guilds would probably stop raiding.
    Besides, there is always some thinking to do when raiding. Tactics change, depending on raid composition, sometimes you need to improvise, maybe your dps/healing isn't as strong as assumed, and you need to adapt to that etc.
    During ICC when my guild was stuck at Sindragosa, i came up with a healer rotation all by myself and then we killed her. It was awesome.
    I don't think it's that big of a problem anyway. As Lore said, people are still having fun raiding.
    Last edited by Korrok; 12-06-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Marina del Rey, CA
    Posts
    3,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Korrok View Post
    Today's boss encounters are just too complex for most guilds to kill without guides. Half the guilds would probably stop raiding.
    This cannot possibly be a true statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10
    Ehm, just look at arcane mage discussions atm, nobody really knows what is best for the spec atm, and sims are broken for it, so ye.. People are just going with what they think is the best, rather than knowing what actually is the definite best rotation and stat distribution for it , which sort of is exactly what you described xD.

  7. #7
    You heard it from Lore, the problem with WoW is other players.

    To expand on the idea of PvP cycles, why couldn't a PvE boss have a CC ability, a massive damage ability that can be interrupted, and a massive damage ability that can be mitigated. The boss uses all three of them in each fight but one is used much more often than the others on a rotating basis. (This week he uses 10 CCs, 3 Interruptible Damage, and 3 Mitgatable Damage, next week maybe he uses 7,3,6 and the next week he uses 1,1,14.) The transition between "high and low tide" would be gradual. So the raid would need to adapt by bringing a different mix of abilities as the boss waxes and wanes.

    The same could be done with boss weaknesses. Maybe at given points in the fight he's weak to ice, or fire, or ranged, or melee. And which he is weak to changes slowly over the course of weeks. The week that he is most weak to ice would be the week that Frost Mages actually have a shot at a raid slot.

    To extend that further why not go to player abilites? Frost, Fire, and Arcane could slowly fluctuate in DPS over time. (This week Arcane is hot, hot, hot! Bust out the Arcane!)

    People would probably hate it though.

    My personal preference would be to get rid of the floating numbers all together. Nobody knows exactly what a class/spec's DPS is. There would be some NPC chosen in the world to be the universal metric and a spec's DPS would be ranked by how fast they could drop that NPC. That's how we did it in EQ, with the Ice Giants in Permafrost.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    This cannot possibly be a true statement.
    Well that's what i think at least. It's not even the main point of my post anyway.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    679
    This was an excellent episode. Great job, and a fine addition to the tankspot community.
    Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,957
    *in LFR as Arms in blues; still tops the meters*

    It saddens me that warlocks/hunters know which spec is best dps, but not how to turn Growl/Threatening Presence off.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    29
    Perhaps when they finally have to do the great stat squish they could just hide all the numbers from the players and give us emoticons to rate our performance instead.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Marina del Rey, CA
    Posts
    3,122
    Without numbers you can't tell if you're improving.

    People who don't want to see numbers are probably people who are terrible and don't want other people to know.

    If you can't make clear improvements the game will have to be dumbed down to deal with that fact...meaning we'll STILL be "too smart" for it...except instead of it actually being "too smart" it'll be the game being "too dumb".
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    185
    Believe it or not - I actually never read any theorycrafting for my main. I have learned both protection AND retribution pretty much on my own, with very small adjustments for gemming or so from reading up online. And I play WoW at a pretty competitive level, my guild (which I am leading) is currently at around 100-150 in the world.

    My point is - for stuff other than reforging/gemming which you really cannot test on our own unless you try each build 100 times, the rest you can learn by yourself.
    Last edited by Valaras; 12-06-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
    Posts
    29
    Great Episode looking forward to seeing the guides again. I have raided with guilds who specifically ask you not to look at the guides so that they have the chance to work out what to do for themselves. I prefer to watch and read guides myself. However I was in one raiding guild that was really fun that had a no guide policy but an agreed limit of wipes for example we wiped for five weeks on Lady Vash and then agreed as a group it was guide time.I'm in a pvp guild now mainly because my old raid team decided not to raid. The boys kindly tolerated me leaving and trying to raid with other guilds but something was missing from my raiding experience i.e my favourite players. So there was nothing left for it but to learn to pvp. I have found that the much more reactive game play has improved my general playing. The unpredictability of the other players is awesome fun. It's a great way of bonding and communicating with your team, to try different talents and hone your skills. I think arena is really exciting and spectator worthy.I still enjoy Warcraft it's still fun and I still have to use my university brain to figure stuff out occasionally. I play arena and battlegrounds with my guild and also my sons and their girl friends and my guildies who are a bit like an extended family.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    9
    Its information that has changed the game.
    Most people will look for a better spec.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    112
    Brawlers guild is mentioned as an example, but the only reason why there is little theorycrafting on brawlers guild is because the progression oriented players doesn't really care alot about it. Sure, many have fun with it, but if they succeed they don't gain anything that makes their char stronger. If we got raid quality loot from it, people would sit down and map out what the most efficient way to kill those bosses are for a given class/spec.

    The same applies to challenge modes. There's very little theorycrafting done when it comes to challenge modes because the reward doesn't advance your character.

    For pve, unless you're saying that blizzard should make content that ultimately only a few care about, the only other solution for blizzard is to "Get better!" (at balancing out talents/classes/specs).
    Last edited by lubz; 12-07-2012 at 01:39 AM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    98
    They are starting to figure it out............
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE1DuBesGYM


    And

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FktsFcooIG8

    Anyone talking about the fat nerd in the basement with no girlfriend or playing MMO/Videogames due to lack of life skills doesn't know what they are talking about. There is a lot of cool stuff in there.........sidebars too.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    98
    Gold seller alert again. Google is piping in guyforgame again.......

  19. #19
    I think the "magical" era of this type of game has gone by. Saw on a Monty's Minute Gary said that at one time it was something to just see another person that was playing a toon and I can really relate to that. I can relate with exploring a new land or dungeon falling in the same boat for me. Once it was simply amazing to see new things, like new raids, but now it is just hallways that leads to a boss that might or might not surprise me. I don't think it was the game so much that changed, but like Lore said I think most people are simply smarter and more adapted to MMO's now. It boils down to this, in my opinion, you either now really like MMO games or you simply were in love with the lustful magic of the genre when it was new and fresh but now are looking for a lawyer for a divorce now that you realize she don't cook so good.

    First person shooters were a lot like that for me. When the first ones came out I was floored and loved them. Then eventually it was the same old same old game with a new graphics engine and hallways to walk though. But like first person shooters they have gone though a little revolution by combining them into MMO's which has kind of rekindled the magic for them IMO. I think eventually the bar based MMO will go though this same revolution again, and what it will be I am not sure, but eventually it will materialize.

    I just happen to really like bar based MMO's so WoW really hasn't lost its magic for me. But I am certainly "used" to it for sure.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    Without numbers you can't tell if you're improving.
    People who don't want to see numbers are probably people who are terrible and don't want other people to know.
    Not necessarily. There are ways to indicate your performance without making them able to be compared across specs and classes. Take for example Skyrim, there are no floating numbers but you still know if you are good or bad at the game.

    I think what the problem comes down to is that the DPS difference between specs are trivial. They shouldn't matter, but they do because MMOs have taught us that tiny incremental improvements in numbers are what the game is all about.

    I'm actually pretty damn good at MMOs in general, including WoW. As an example, when I played EQ, I used to solo content that would kill you in a single round, if you let the mob hit you. For those who played EQ, there was an end game zone that was a perquisite for raiding in the Gates of Discord expansion. This zone called Tipt had 4 mobs in the entrance that would kill my Iksar Necromancer in a single round. (They hit 4 times per round and 1 hit would take off 60% of my health. So on occasion if they missed 3 out of 4 hits then I would live, a single round. But usually they hit 3 out of 4.) Just getting to this zone was an ordeal. But I would solo those 4 mobs by snaring them and DoTing them and then kiting those 4 red-con mobs around the cramped entrance for 10 to 15 minutes before they would start to drop. If they would resist a snare, maybe I would have time to reapply it before they ate my face, maybe not. If I died then I would have to run back across 6 zones filled with mobs that could kill my naked self if they just looked at me wrong. Not to mention that you lost a chunk of EXP every time you died. Kiting a single mob in EQ is for more difficult than anything I ever did in WoW, and kiting 4 of them made me one of the best Necros in the game. (And if you've never raided in the later WoW expansions, then you can't even try to compare the raid difficulty. In WoW there is amazement if a world first guild hasn't beaten the hardest bosses in the tier within a month. In EQ there were raids that weren't beaten before the next expansion came out.)

    So, when I say that I'm good at WoW, I mean that I have plenty enough skill to play the game, but the mentality that I encountered when playing WoW, was that because I had not spent 80 hours grinding out gear that I was a bad player. No amount of skill in WoW will compensate for a lack of time spent grinding gear. So, when people say that some folks are bad at WoW, half the time they're talking about someone's 9 year old brother or 50 year old mom playing the game with no idea what they are doing, and half the time they are just talking about someone with a lack of sufficient time to sink into the gear quest.

    I have very little sympathy for people who complain about a 5% difference in DPS between specs. It's ridiculous to obsess over something so small, and the fact that you can top the meters for your spec is really not that impressive to me. WoW isn't hard. WoW raiding isn't hard. Dealing with over entitled WoW players is hard.

    Every so often I think, maybe I should get back into WoW and do some raiding. Maybe that would be a challenge, then I remember that the only challenge is dealing with the other players and then I remember I have better things to spend my money and time on.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts