+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Pally tanking dps problems

  1. #1

    Pally tanking dps problems

    Hey guys,

    This might be normal but when tanking elegon, i wanted to help out on orbs but my dps for the whole fight and even normal tanking is about 15 20k is this normal?

    TIA

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,965
    that does seem really low, got any logs or a profile link?
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Karlsruhe/Germany
    Posts
    4,016
    1. Expertise hard cap (15%)
    2. Hit cap (7.5%)
    3. get some haste
    4. Sacred Shield talent instead of Eternal Flame
    5. Hammer of Light talent instead of Holy Prism

    What is the rotation that you are doing?

  5. #5
    1. Hammer of the Righteous only use to maintain Weakened Blows.
    2. Crusader Strike on cooldown. Generates Holy Power.
    3. Judgment on cooldown. Generates Holy Power.
    4. Avenger's Shield with or without Grand Crusader.
    5. Consecration on cooldown.
    6. Hammer of Wrath when target is below 20% Health.
    7. Holy Wrath on cooldown.
    cut and paste but thats it

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Karlsruhe/Germany
    Posts
    4,016
    Ok, lets change this a bit:

    CS-J-X ... CS-X-J ... CS-X-X

    Is the basic framework

    X stands for filler abilities.

    These are (in order of priority):

    Avenger's Shield with Grand Crusader procc (generates holy power)
    Holy Wrath (hits hardest)
    Avenger's Shield (hits second hardest)
    Sacred Shield (absorbs a load of damage)
    Hammer of Wrath (hits third hardest)
    Consecration (hits fourth hardest)

    Glyphs:

    Final Wrath
    Battle Healer
    Divine Protection/Focused Shield

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,055
    Edit: Take Fetzie's advice over mine but I at least said SOME of the same things, lol.

    Get your hit to 7.5 and your expertise as close to 15 as you reasonably can. Missing or being dodged/parried affects your threat and damage. More importantly, however, if you miss a Shield of the Righteous or a holy power builder, you are losing uptime on your survival buffs. Getting the buff from SotR makes healing you easier because the damage is more predictable. this is more important than dodge, parry. This is why haste is one of our top tanking stats; so that we can generate holy power faster.

    I would consider changing your glyphs a little. Alabaster shield and Focused shield are both nice damage upgrades. The glyph for hammer of the righteous debuff lasting longer is really not necessary. You only have to swap one crusader's strike per 30 seconds even unglyphed. If you are really worried about managing that debuff, just use any tracker you want; powerauras, weakauras, elkano's buff bars and the list goes on.

    Glyph of dazing shield...I personally have never seen a use for this. Not sure why it's popular unless it's for pvp. Typically, the last thing I want is mobs dazed because it usually makes it harder to get them all grouped up in the same place or position them the way I want.

    As to the avenging wrath, that's more a play style choice I would guess. I use AW when I want the threat. I generally don't think of it for the passive healing from this glyph. Doesn't seem to me that it's enough healing to make it critical to have so I looked at all the options. But based on play style, I suppose this can be as good as another.

    I personally generally go with Divine Protection, Battle Healer and Alabaster Shield. I like focused shield but I like having the smart AoE of the shield bounce so Alabaster shield won out. Battle Healer accounts for a lot of healing over the course of a raid boss. I can usually top 20k heals on a fight just passively while tanking without Word of Glory or Lay on Hands. Just that glyph, seal of insight, sacred shield and holy prism. Be willing to switch them out based on the fight, however.

    As to talents, I would personally highly recommend sacred shield over Eternal Flame. You can keep 100% uptime on sacred shield and not have to sacrifice holy power to have the benefit. Besides, if I need to use holy power for heals, typically, it's an oh crap moment where I prefer to have the whole heal up front and not as a hot. I'd bet you will most likely get a lot more prevented damage from sacred shield than you will get heals from word of glory/Eternal Flame. Since you have holy prism, make sure you use it basically on cooldown as your rotation allows. I usually sub it in for a holy wrath when prism is off cd. Not using word of glory/eternal flame except when absolutely necessary should free you up for more Shield of the Righteous. If you already are using SotR for every 3 holy power, then eternal flame wasn't doing you any good anyways.

    Make sure that your rotation is centered around generating holy power as quickly as you can and spending it on Shield of the Righteous. Holy Avenger is beautiful for this. You can stack so many SotR's that you have a buff that lasts even beyond the duration of HA for a little while. As a bonus, it's a nice threat boost too. In the past (Cata and before) I would use Avenging Wrath on the pull usually for the threat boost. Now, I hold onto that and pair it with Holy Avenger usually unless there is a phase in the fight where we need extra damage. For instance, on stone guard I wait until I have two dogs and pop them together for the threat boost and the SotR spam. After that first time with two, I use AW on cd and HA any time I will suddenly take more damage, like when I taunt and have two dogs again. On Feng, I will use HA when I need the SotR spam to help the healers and I use AW in phase two to do what I can helping burn that phase faster.

    Without logs, being generic is about all I know to do. I hope some of that helps.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Karlsruhe/Germany
    Posts
    4,016
    I personally generally go with Divine Protection, Battle Healer and Alabaster Shield.
    Final Wrath is more reliable dps than Alabaster Shield.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,055
    So even though final wrath only affects the last 20%, you like it better, eh?
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Karlsruhe/Germany
    Posts
    4,016
    You're running along with 30% block or so. The boss swings every ~2 seconds. So you'll block on average every 5-6 seconds. So you'll only ever really see one stack of alabaster shield, maybe none unless you are lucky. And 50% more damage on Holy Wrath is huge, like, this huge:

    [21:45:41.439] Fetzie Holy Wrath Jan-xi *325718*

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,055
    Umm...my holy wrath hits on average for 30k. Doubling that didn't seem like much benefit, especially for only the last 20% of the fight and on a long-ish cd. Not sure if my gear just sucks that bad (which it pretty much does at 468 iLvl) but if your holy wrath is hitting for 150k and then doubling, I can see that.

    For me, overall on a night where I ranged from 35k to 60k, I get average values something like this:

    AS - 70k
    Cons - 3k a tick
    SotR - 43k
    Judge - 33k
    HW - 30k
    Holy Prism - 43k
    CS - 34k

    The Alabster Shield makes sense. I may switch that back to Focused Shield until my gear is better. Avenger's Shield is still my hardest hitting and top overall damage. Consecration is next on damage done. Not sure where my results are so different from the proirity you listed. Really makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong even though I haven't seemed to have any issues.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  12. #12
    is there anything i can use to get the hit and expertise up? annons or anything that tells me how to and whats they best way to

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Karlsruhe/Germany
    Posts
    4,016
    Get the Ghost Iron Dragonling trinket, you can place a 600 hit cogwheel, a 600 expertise cogwheel and another 600 secondary stat cogwheel (mastery or haste preferably) in it. Available from a friendly engineer, it will cost about 100g in materials to craft the trinket and the cogwheels (or just buy one from the AH).

    Look over your reforges, see if you have any room for changes there (like your pants, for example). Same goes for gems, and I think there is also a 170 expertise glove enchant too. Otherwise look for gear with hit and expertise on it, the dps ring from the quest from Klaxxi exalted has haste and expertise on it. I would also recommend running LFR as a retribution spec, as many of the retribution only items are excellent sources of haste, hit and expertise.

    Don't be afraid of gemming expertise if you need to, see how many gem sockets I have with expertise gems in them:

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...etzie/advanced
    Last edited by Fetzie; 11-14-2012 at 05:30 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,023
    Just as a note, while the Final Wrath glyph is more reliable in a sense, it is still not 100% reliable (edit: well, reliable isn't a good word here..I mean you can't use it on cooldown like you might expect). Refreshing Sacred Shield and Grand Crusader procs will push back when you can use Holy Wrath (assuming you are using the standard rotation). That said, Alabaster Shield is on average 85% more dps than Final Wrath over the course of the fight (remember that Theck's Final Wrath numbers are only for the last 20% of the fight) and average is a much bigger consideration for DPS than it is for Survivability (meaning, it is easier to argue reliability matters for survival versus dps).

    I tend to pick alabaster shield over final wrath for 2 reasons:
    1. It is more dps contributed to the overall fight than Final Wrath
    2. I tend to drift more on my rotation at the last 20% of the fight mentally and usually only do enough to keep up my HP and ShoR. This is mainly because I start looking at what cooldowns I have left and start figuring how I can use them to make the last part of the fight easier on the healers (like if GoAK is up again, use that during the last 20s of the fight or something), so I don't have the mental bandwidth.

    #2 is purely a "me" thing though. Many tanks are much better than me and can handle all that plus pump out max DPS without missing a beat.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Karlsruhe/Germany
    Posts
    4,016
    Meh, I'll give Alabaster Shield another go tomorrow evening.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    You're running along with 30% block or so. The boss swings every ~2 seconds. So you'll block on average every 5-6 seconds. So you'll only ever really see one stack of alabaster shield, maybe none unless you are lucky. And 50% more damage on Holy Wrath is huge, like, this huge:
    my alibaster shield is at 3 stack the majority of every boss fight.



    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice


+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts