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Thread: Stone Guard 10N Tanking Question

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    16
    Updated the auras, they seem to be importing correctly now.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1
    I tried applying the WeakAuras import formula on 1.4.7.7 When I do I get an error on them.. I don't know what I am doing wrong. :/


    For Amethyst I get
    Error Decompressing: Decompression error at 202/4457


    For Cobalt I get
    Error Decompressing: Decompression error at 216/4375


    For Jade I get
    Error Decompressing: Decompression error at 202/4344


    For Jasper I get
    Error Decompressing: Decompression error at 199/4356

  3. #23
    DBM actually has a window that shows the energy of all the Quillen, I normally use bigwigs, but on this fight DBm is much better
    www.blessthemartyrguild.com

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Frankfurt, DE
    Posts
    67
    We always keep the petrifying Quillen with the one having the lowest energy together and switch accordingly with the other tank(s). Mistakes can and will happen, especially with us having only 1 taunt and an 8 second CD This saves mele running accross the room and pretty much means we can move the whole raid behind the 2 being tanked by me, which means we can move as a group out of stuff and people who get chained are always together.

    I had a real problem with boss unit frames, it seems that pitbull doesn't do boss frames and for some reason my dbm boss frames are broken. I downloaded Shadowed Unit Frames from curse and only have the boss frames it provides active, all the other frames are disabled. It works in tandom with my pitbull which i use for all the other frames without causing any problems.

    So that is what we do, on 25 or on 10, keep the two together in the same place and switch with the add tanks as needed, keeping an eye on energy levels. It does require good coordination and voice chat and practise but should go fine!

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1

    stone guard 10m

    We did stone guard with 1 tank with the following setup. 1 tank, 3 heals, 3 melee, 3 ranged. We pull same as always, the difference is we use a dps (in our case a feral druid) to hold 2 for a bit then mt pulls 1 to let the other 2 gain nrg. Once we get the energy to 30/60/90ish we just heal through the bad overloads. It's on super hard if your healers are good. A BR or 2 is good to have. Our hps at the end of the fight was 160k and dps was almost 400k the fight lasted about 5.5 min. I'm not sure if this will work for every group but worked for us. GL.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,055
    I'm getting a decompression error at 202 when I attempt to import the Amethyst.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1
    I had some problem at first targeting the correct mob while moving (potentially avoiding stuff or needing to move within range) and then taunting them without delay. To make this a little bit easier, I've made four macros:

    /target Jade Guardian
    /cast Reckoning

    /target Jasper Guardian
    /cast Reckoning

    /target Amethyst Guardian
    /cast Reckoning

    /target Cobalt Guardian
    /cast Reckoning

    I key bind them for this fight, choose icons to match the color, and instruct my other tank to do the same. As for your active mitigation, that should already be on auto-pilot. I hit those keys and my CD's without much thought. Our current problem with our guild at the moment is keeping our other players alive. It's discouraging to see people go down due to avoidable damage.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2
    We downed them by using a few foolproof rules :
    • each tank do a /focus on the other one
    • the tank tanking 2 bosses always targets the one with the white circle under it, and keep targetting it after overload
    • the tank tanking one stays in range and if a circle appears under his boss, he hits the macro : "/target focusTarget /cast <your taunt>", not forgetting to target back the white circle once he has secured aggro on the taunted boss.
    No name to check, target to guess or whatever, just the white circle to watch for. And just tell the dps to do the same. Only problem is the melee dps will have to run back and forth.
    For the 1st pull, the tank taking the two bosses just pick a random one at pull, then at 45% energy, the tank having the two bosses tell the other one to hit the macro.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1
    Mate, this looks like a great weak aura the trouble being I always get an error when i attempt to import normally around character 200 (for all 4 file), something about decompression not working.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    235
    Yes, sadly, it is that hard until/unless you Get It (tm).

    It's the hard reality that separates Tanks With Clue from the Tanks Who Stand There And Look Pretty. The former category research the fight and think about the why and the how of the taunts, and read the fight flow instead of going with an ironclad strategy. The latter group just show up and say, 'Uh, what do I do?' It's very easy to screw up the timing on the fight at the beginning, or if someone gets into trouble somewhere in the middle due to a slow taunt or out of range taunt.

    One of our realm's top guilds -- who were at 7/7 Heroic Madness of Deathwing -- roadblocked hard on Stone Guard for a month, because their tanks were of the 'taunt now' knowledge-level variety. They gave up and went with LFR for that month until they got the gear to brute force it.

    There are also two ways to run the fight - the 'safe' way to minimize explosions and the 'hard' way to minimize movement for when Chains are up.

    This is how I explain it:

    - Safe: Taunt the lowest energy dog (aka 'zero dog', the one that just blew up) over to the petrifying dog. Any time you have both dogs and the other one that didn't blow up lights up, you're safe to just keep both and do nothing. Because all three dogs light up at some point, this means that occasionally the other tank will be taunting the zero energy dog over to them, forcing the melee to switch sides.

    At the start: if one of the two-dog tank's dogs lights up at the start, the other tank taunts off the petrifying (aka 'lit up' dog) over at 50 energy.

    If the one-dog tank's dog lights up at the start, taunt either of the two-dog tank's dogs over at the start, then when the petrifying dog is at ~60, the tank that started with two taunts the petrifying dog back over to them. (I use 60 because usually it takes a little bit for the one dog tank to realize that they're the one holding the hot potato, meaning the tank with two dogs, no lights now has dogs around 10-20 energy.

    - Double Swap:
    Done correctly, one tank will always have both dogs. This is one order of magnitude harder since both tanks have to taunt at the same time, which will have the dogs crossing each other (and gaining a little more energy in the swap) so they'll be sitting in the 70s range a lot. The benefit of this is that the melee won't have to keep crossing back and forth all the time, which will make Jasper Chains a lot easier to work with. (Making the melee move back and forth increases the chances of failure because they have less time on target and have a higher chance of killing a healer with Jasper Chains, because the healer too is busy healing a tank to move. So while 'safe' mode is easier due to less wrong-explosion chances, it's harder because the fight runs longer.)

    The drawback of this part is that there will be more raid damage to deal with as the dogs will be petrifying for less time on the swaps. Also, the tank that is taking two dogs will be taking more damage because they have two sets of melee attacks to deal with, and twice as many Rend Flesh attempts.

    At the start, if the tank with two dogs has the lit dog, swap out the unlit dog at 50 energy with the one-dog tank's dog, which will have 0 energy. If the one dog tank's dog lights up at the front, have them take either of the dogs from the two dog tank, hang onto it until the dog that they taunted over hits 60 energy, and then taunt the lit dog back over to the tank that started with two dogs. (I'm not sure if this is the most efficient way just yet, but this is how we're doing it as of last night.)

    Now, every time a dog blows up:
    If the one dog tank's dog lights up, they switch out the dog with the _higher_ energy (the one that didn't blow up on the two dog tank) for the one dog tank's lit dog, which means the two dog tank will have the lit dog and the zero dog.

    However. The complication is this -- if the one dog tank doesn't notice that they've got the lit dog (I know, I know, how could they NOT notice a giant white circle around their dog, but two of my tanks are that unobservant) or if the taunt exchange screws up -- we had three separate instances of dogs doubling back to their original owners on the swap last night, you may end up with a one-dog tank with a dog that's around 90+ energy. In that case, you want to detonate it safely - have them pull the zero dog over to them and keep it.

    Another complication can occur when you mess up the swap (taunted the wrong thing) and suddenly one person has a dog that has higher energy than the lit dog, so the wrong dog is going to blow up first. The recovery route for that is to either swap out the high dog for the dog the one dog tank has if the one dog tank's energy is lower (such as if it just blew up) or the lit dog when the non-lit dog on reaches 80-ish to minimize the energy gain on the one dog tank's dog if it's also high.

    (Why? Because the absolute worst situation you can be in is having one dog with zero energy (it just blew up) and two dogs with 85+ energy due to bad swaps. There's a pause between the next Petrification cast, and you have to be ready to swap dogs as soon as you figure out which one's next -- and it is very likely the wrong dog will blow up.)

    If a tank dies and one tank has all three dogs for a little bit, so all three of them are gaining energy:
    The best recovery route is for the rezzed tank to take away the dog with the highest energy, unless it's the lit dog that has the highest energy. (The _wrong_ dog for the rezzed tank to take away is the lit dog... which of course was the dog that my OT chose to take away. "I just picked one and grabbed it," they said. To be fair, they hadn't downed the fight before.)

    I've 'taught' four different tanks this fight at this point, and it's in quotes because I'm telling them pretty much the stuff up there - I start them on 'safe' mode to see if they get it, 'hard' if they do, and 'just taunt what I tell you to' if they have trouble.

    One of them got it right off the bat and can do it either way. One of them gets the principle and caught my mistakes when I made them, but has issues with distance. One of them is of mediocre skill and messes up their taunts sometimes, leading to a wipe when we do it the hard way, but they get the theory on the back of a napkin. One of them... still doesn't really get it and is still 'I just taunt what you tell me to' mode. I found this out the hard way when I gave them a group to tank on their own with a fresh tank who hadn't seen the fight before. :P

    So yeah. Bottom line is that not all tanks are created equal. A few extra seconds hesitation or the inability to change tactics at a moment's notice is the difference between nasty explosions and not.

    Odds on are that if you're reading Tankspot, though, you have the interest in getting clues, however, or already have them and want to share.

    Also, the fight goes a lot smoother if you pre-prepare the other tank to taunt ahead of time: I'm using DBM and the base UI. During the Petrification phase, I'm clicking both dogs that I have and noting the names of which one is petrifying and which one is not. If I'm playing in 'safe' mode, I just tell the OT: 'If yours lights up, take (dog that is currently petrifying).' If playing in 'double swap' mode, I tell them to take the non-petrifying dog, but I'm also looking at their dog's energy - if it's over 85, I tell them to take the soon-to-be-zero dog if theirs lights up and warn the rest of the raid 'do not break Chains -- it's going to be a short explosion'.

    Since I'm doing the double swaps, rather than get the dogs by name, I'll just point my nose at the other tank, move the mouse over to their dog, click on it, and taunt. Easier than trying to fumble with the raid frames, though I do use those quite a bit when I'm figuring out what dog needs to be fixed by detonation next.

    -Tielyn

    PS.The conversation I saw in Trade the other day says it all:
    [Trade] Random person #1: Fresh MV run, need two tanks and GTG!
    [Trade] Random person #2: Good luck finding two PUG tanks who can do the dogs and Feng button pushing correctly.

    (I've seen two Feng groups in Raid Finder two weeks running have tanks that ignored one or both crystals. No bubble, no reversals...and not much AM to speak of, either.)
    Last edited by Tielyn; 11-24-2012 at 10:15 AM.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2
    Well, I'm the type of guy who won't do anything you told him, no matter how long or hard you repeat it, until I understand _why_ I should do it. So, yes, understanding the mechanism is definitively important, if only to manage the glitches that can and will happen sometimes.
    But what makes a good analyst is the capacity to expose a complex problem through a simple solution. And as simple as it is, finding it may not be and imply a full understanding. Yep, using such a set of rules & macros without knowing why won't do you any good. But I consider it smart trying to do things as simply as you can.
    So, after trying the double-swap, I think it is definitively the hardest one to master. One swap only is the way to try first. And using /focus on the other tank allows you to say 'If yours lights up, take (dog that is currently petrifying).', only without actually saying it. Fast and simple. Every tank is pointing each other what target s/he should pick. You can always do the talking if in need to deviate from the plan.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1
    A guide over at mmo-champion gave me the hint that solves the problem of posting weak aura code here...
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ded-Weak-Auras

    In your Export or post here you got spaces/CR in the text that breaks the import.
    So for the import to work, load the text in Notepad++ or similar and do a search for "whitespace" and replace with nothing.
    That will make the import successfull.


    Amethyst:
    Code:
    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    Cobalt:
    Code:
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    Im looking forward to try them out soon


    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    Well, I got annoyed enough to make a weak aura that tells you what is petrifying and what it needs to be tanked with. Still working on it, feedback would be appreciated. I have not tested in 25m yet. It will say "X Guardian is Petrifying, Tank X Guardian next to Y Guardian".

    10/31 Edit: Seems there was an issue here with text truncating, so instead of the group of 4 auras, I'm posting them individually:

    Amethyst


    Cobalt:


    Jade:


    Jasper:


    Just use the New->Import feature from WeakAuras and copy paste. Only 1 of these will be active at a time depending on which boss is petrifying.

    Enjoy

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    339
    i made this for my tanks...
    prints on legal sized paper.


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