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Thread: Stone Guard 10N Tanking Question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Stone Guard 10N Tanking Question

    Is it really that hard? I mean really?

    Having a hell of a time trying to explain to tanks when to taunt which guardian in order for the overloads to occur correctly. All i get is excuses about not being able to see their energy bars, some bitching about tab targeting and not being able to select them, more bitching about nameplates not working correctly, etc., etc... You can strip this fight down to the main Blizzard UI (as ugly as it might be) + DBM and you should be able to see everything you need.

    I've had a main of every role there is across the expansions and patches, and I know tanking is not the easiest thing in the world, but all you have to worry about in this fight after getting initial aggro is dodging shit on the ground that's easy to see (and that DBM alerts you of if you're doing incorrectly), and taunting the correct add while communicating with the other tank (which DBM also puts up nice neat little numbers for). Ok you also have to use your active dmg mitigation abilities now, but still!

    So I ask all you main tanks out there in this tier... is 10m Normal Stone Guard really that hard?

    </rant>

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Karlsruhe/Germany
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    Not hard, but takes some getting used to. If your tank(s) is/are having trouble with the fight, and you "get it", do the calling out of taunts yourself.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    I do, unfortunately i'm healing so i have to stop looking at ppl's health to do this... But even when i did, they had trouble making the switches. They'd pull the wrong ones or take too long to swap which threw things out of whack.

  4. #4
    Thing is it's kind of a weird mechanic. It's something you actually deal with fairly easily (you set it up by taunting at 50 energy at the start, then just taunt whichever guardian just popped when you need to make a switch), but the reasoning behind the strategy is a bit tough for some people to understand. Sometimes people are okay with just being told "do this, and it'll work." Sometimes they need to understand the reasons why, or they end up confusing themselves. In those cases it's not a bad idea to take a couple minutes and just ask them what's still confusing them.

    For me, I have a simple thought process. If I'm tanking 2, I don't need to worry about taunting so I just go about my business. If I'm tanking 1, I make a note of which guardian is currently petrifying, and get ready to taunt it if my guardian is next up. Easy stuff.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Yeah the main issue seems to be to get ppl to understand that the Petrifying one has to be next to the one with the LOWEST energy, not just next to whatever other random one... I swear I've explained this like 50 times already between different pugs and guild runs and I just don't get it.

    I will say that I at least found that some raidframe addons might get in the way of seeing the petrification bar in your screen. I specifically had to deal with Pitbull (it's just a check box u have to clear under the "Hide Blizzard Frames" module) so I would see it. Not that it matters that much since DBM tells u and the bosses get a buff when they petrify.

    And on that note, I felt like trying to write a weakaura for this by checking that buff on the boss frames, but unfortunately there seems to be some bug with the Amethyst Guardian not gaining the buff when its petrifying. So I have to rewrite things based on successful spellcasts of the petrification stacks... yay!

    Sorry for all the whining I've been a little frustrated recently

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    1
    I think that a user's UI influences their ability to tank this fight. This fight became extremely easy after I cleaned up my UI. I just clicked on the boss frame that I had to taunt and run a little closer taunt then run back.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    3,897
    I wrote this a couple of weeks ago in the other thread (on vacation on my cell phone so this is the best hlp I can provide ATM)
    Simplified taunt rotation if your tanks need help. 1) if you have 2 of them ... Forget about everything but staying alive ... 2) if you are tanking only one boss ... Target the currently empowered boss and set it as your focus ... Wait for it to explode wait a few seconds and stare at your bosses feet ... If you see a giant glowing circle hit your target focus taunt focus macro and proceed to focus on nothing but staying alive ... If you don't see a circle repeat step 2 till you do ...
    One additional thought on that ... My co-tank and I, whenever we are tanking 1 boss, without even realizing it starting saying "I am taunting x if mine gets it" to the point that now on vent any time you hear both voices almost simultaneously "I am getting x if mine gets it" "you are taunting x if yours gets it" ... It is that reassurance that makes the fight so much easier and settles us both down letting us get into a rhythm ... We have been tanking together as main tank off tank since sunwell so that probably helps us a lot but your tanks will get there eventually



  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Oklahoma
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    For me, the complication comes in having so many things to watch:

    1. My hp
    2. My rotation for active mitigation
    3. My spacing for generating/not generating energy and being close for taunts
    4. Having to call raid call outs

    4 is where things get difficult. The better I call out breaking chains or ice traps, etc, the worse I am at watching my hp. I have died a number of times with Ardent Defender or GotAK still not used and that never used to happen. It's getting better, especially now that some of the other raiders are starting to take more of a role helping with raid call outs.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    central ny
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    tried this tonight for the first time as the off tank it was three and a half hours of constant wipes.hopefully next weekend goes better.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    311
    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    For me, the complication comes in having so many things to watch:

    1. My hp
    2. My rotation for active mitigation
    3. My spacing for generating/not generating energy and being close for taunts
    4. Having to call raid call outs

    4 is where things get difficult. The better I call out breaking chains or ice traps, etc, the worse I am at watching my hp. I have died a number of times with Ardent Defender or GotAK still not used and that never used to happen. It's getting better, especially now that some of the other raiders are starting to take more of a role helping with raid call outs.
    Honestly you rarely have to focus on all these things at once. Even in 25 man where you are dealing with much more chaos for this fight, if you are tanking 1 mob you focus on 3 (which just boils down to being in range for taunts as being far enough away from the other bosses is fairly easy) and 4. If you are tanking 2 of the mobs you focus on 1 and 2. The only raid call outs I make as the raid leader for this fight is to remind people when to break chains and calling out a general reminder to the two other tanks what boss will be taunted after explosion if they have the focus boss next.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Oklahoma
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    But that is assuming that things go "according to plan". We have had a number of situations (mostly in 25 as we've tried both) where the energy gets wonky. This necessitates thinking on your feet about which dogs to taunt where to rebalance everything. Also, only about four of our raiders were active raiders with us in late Cata. We are still adjusting as a team and are quite sloppy at times. Unfortunately, it seems that the tanks are having to be aware of who is in traps at the wrong times, etc. Also, I've died with one dog on me more than when I have two. It seems that the tank with two is getting plenty of attention and the tank(s) with one are often getting ignored too much.

    In an ideal world where I can just let my healers worry about my hp most of the time or let my raiders worry about standing in fire, I could more easily agree with you Takethecake. Unfortunately, we aren't getting the kills on this that cleanly.

    We are going to be focusing on 10m now though as most of the people who previously said they prefer 25m either fell of the face of Azeroth or haven't even finished leveling/gearing.

    Edit: Oh, and I hate chains. I don't even have to deal with them as a tank but apparently they are a pita judging by how often they kill my raid =/

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    The first night our dps were having issues with chains as well. It was only an issue of a melee was chained with a non melee normally, so we finally had to say it doesn't matter who is chained, always run towards your partner and your job while chained is to stay near that person... at the end of the day for normal mode dps doesn't matter for that fight.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Canada
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    the easiest way to handle the tank swaping i found is to go with our 25man strat, i have a video with vent posted in the 25man guide i wrote, but the easiest way to handle the tank swap is to just have the active one taunted when it reaches 50 energy, so if the tank that is holding 2 guards both adds will charge to 50 have the tank holding one to taunt the active one to him that way the active is already 50 energy, and the tank with the inactive should have one that is 0 to 10 energy. once the next active guard is have the tank with the active guard taunt the last one that blew up and has zero energy, if the tank that had the last one now has the new active u dont need to do anything because the last active one should be at zero energy and the new active should be above 50.

    as for chains u should really only have those break them for 2 reason only. one they are connected to to melee/range or healer, but if its range with range or melee with melee dont break it. the 2nd reason u would want to break it if its already paired with the correct group is if they were bad with chains and the stacks gotten too high, at that point u need to break the chain cause the damage output be to high to heal. but that shouldn't be an issue at all if the chains were handle correctly

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    16
    Well, I got annoyed enough to make a weak aura that tells you what is petrifying and what it needs to be tanked with. Still working on it, feedback would be appreciated. I have not tested in 25m yet. It will say "X Guardian is Petrifying, Tank X Guardian next to Y Guardian".

    10/31 Edit: Seems there was an issue here with text truncating, so instead of the group of 4 auras, I'm posting them individually:

    Amethyst
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    Jasper:
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    Just use the New->Import feature from WeakAuras and copy paste. Only 1 of these will be active at a time depending on which boss is petrifying.

    Enjoy
    Last edited by Porthos; 10-31-2012 at 04:19 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Karlsruhe/Germany
    Posts
    3,899
    I'll try it out next time we do MGV, but that might not be until next Tuesday.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,055
    I absolutely love the idea but really didn't think it would be possible. I didn't think Blizz would add hooks so that you can read and compare the energy of all the dogs.

    Never really used weak auras...that string looks crazy in both the length and the fact that it's all gibberish. Did that paste correctly?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Karlsruhe/Germany
    Posts
    3,899

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,055
    So 10m, our strat has been going like this: most times the first active dog is on the side with two dogs. When they are around 43 energy, the tank with one dog has been taunting the active one over. From there, any time the single side goes active, they taunt the low energy dog (last active one).

    One problem we've not solved, what do you do when the side with a single dog is the first active? We've been taunting either of the other two to the active side. This usually ends up with both inactive having 20-25 energy. Then, when they get up around 70-ish, the active is taunted back to the other side. This leaves us with a 50-ish, a 25-ish and a 70-ish. We try to treat it normally from there but it always seems we end up with a situation where we can't avoid a double overload eventually if it starts this way.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,251
    If the single one goes active first, taunt one of the doubles to Tank #2, swap the non-actives when active has 50, after overload, either keep going on the current set or taunt the just overloaded one back to Tank #1 for the 'normal' rotation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    16
    Something's broke with my copy/paste of the aura, will be fixing here shortly... Will edit my post instead of adding another wall of text.

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