Relic of Niuzao

[Barlar]

im a prot war and my GM is freaking out for me to get the relic, but im thnking its not that great, i mean with our current stat priorities, its only good for magic fights, but that makes the dodge useless... am i missing something? or is he wrong?

[Dreador]

If you can get it cheap or free, then get it. If not, the brewfest trinkets are nearly as good and they toss you a beer to boot. Dodge sucks for warriors, paladins and DKs, I have no idea about druides. The stam is barely 100 more than brewfest trinkets. No sense spending 50-100k on something you'll replace in LFR.

[Barlar]

that was exactly mt thinking!

[Dreador]

Honestly if the GM wants you to have it so bad, the guild bank should buy it for you.

[Barlar]

lol thats what i said

[Bigbad]

I love it on my DK, using 2 dodge on use trinkets+ DRW puts me on 66% avoidance instead of 34%

The stamina isn't worthless, brewfest trinkets aren't even close to being just as good...

[Fetzie]

It isn't a bad trinket, but when you look at what you can have in a week or two's time from the Shado'pan (http://www.wowhead.com/item=89079) or perhaps get from the trash in Mogu'shun Vaults (http://www.wowhead.com/item=86046) I say it isn't worth the 40-60k gold that people want for it.

[Dreador]

I love it on my DK, using 2 dodge on use trinkets+ DRW puts me on 66% avoidance instead of 34%

The stamina isn't worthless, brewfest trinkets aren't even close to being just as good...

Do DKs not suffer the same DR as warriors and paladins on dodge? How the hell do you get 32% dodge from rating?

[Fetzie]

Do DKs not suffer the same DR as warriors and paladins on dodge? How the hell do you get 32% dodge from rating?

32% avoidance != 32% dodge

[Dreador]

32% avoidance != 32% dodge

66% minus 34% avoidance = 2 dodge trinkets at 32% post-DR from his post.

EDIT: DRW?

[Fetzie]

Dancing Rune Weapon, grants 20% parry chance while active.

[Bigbad]

Relic gives me about 9% dodge and Heart of Fire about 3% more, although with the DR on dodge using them separately might be better. Still going from avoiding 1/3 of the hits to avoiding 2/3 of the hits is pretty awesome

@Fetzie: I prefer mastery over avoidance as well but does 2800 mastery really compare to 8800 dodge? All 3 trinkets got a 1 min cd and the 12-15 sec uptime is pretty close.

[Thanassos]

Completely not needed for any content you can get a better trinket from.

[Fetzie]

Relic gives me about 9% dodge and Heart of Fire about 3% more, although with the DR on dodge using them separately might be better. Still going from avoiding 1/3 of the hits to avoiding 2/3 of the hits is pretty awesome

@Fetzie: I prefer mastery over avoidance as well but does 2800 mastery really compare to 8800 dodge? All 3 trinkets got a 1 min cd and the 12-15 sec uptime is pretty close.

Something like 4% more reduction with ShoR up, 20% more WoG healing with 5 BoG stacks, 4% block chance versus 4% dodge. For a paladin, there is no competition at all.

[Bigbad]

~9% dodge not 4% or am I missing something? Which, assuming base 35% avoidance, would be 14% less damage (0,56/0,65=0,86) or 20% less damage when dancing runeweapon is up (0,36/0,45=0,8). Just some quick naphkin math which would be different for blocktanks but I'd take the ~14% damage reduction over ~20% stronger bloodshields as DK.

[Takethecake]

The fact that they didn't reduce the dodge click portion of the trinket when they added the stam really does make this trinket much better than the other stam trinkets currently available I think. Over 3x the rating on the on use. While mastery has higher overall net gains per a point, it's not even close to 1.5x more effective than dodge let alone 3x.

If you are willing to part with the gold for it I think it's a great trinket for the whole tier. I would rate it higher even than the heroic jade warlord overall, but that's just me.

[Fetzie]

If I am ranking dodge and parry way below Haste and Mastery after going for 2550 hit rating and 5100 expertise, then yes, I do think that the mastery on use trinket is more useful. Debatable if I would prefer an item with crit and haste over mastery and dodge (given equal mastery and haste amounts).

[Takethecake]

Ahh yeah for paladin I could see that then. But for war and dk too I think we don't value crit or haste.

[Fetzie]

Paladins don't value crit, currently it is a little less desirable than dodge and parry (parry is more valuable because the DR is so much lower).

[Takethecake]

Just to compare all the available Stam trinkets (excluding the brewfest trinkets)

Heroic-Jade Warlord
1827 Stam
4059 Mastery for 15 seconds
1 min cd

Effective mastery if used on cooldown = 1014.75 rating

Jade Warlord / Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage
1619 Stam
3595 Mastery for 15 seconds
1 min cd

Effective mastery if used on cooldown = 898.75

Relic of Niuzao
1434 Stam
8871 Dodge for 12 seconds
1 min cd

Effective dodge if used on cooldown = 1774.2
Mastery equivalent for paladins using theck's stat weights = 1315.569 Mastery
Mastery equivalent for warriors using theck's stat weights = 1726.297 Mastery

Raid finder Jade Warlord
1434 Stam
3184 Mastery for 15 seconds
1 min cd

Effective mastery if used on cooldown = 796

Iron Protector Talisman
1270 Stam
3386 dodge for 15 seconds
proc with 45s ICD

Effective dodge if procs on cooldown = 1128.667


So for normal mode and HM trinkets you are weighing the stam vs the click
HM Jade warlord has +393 stam and for paladins 300 less effective mastery, for warriors 711 less effective mastery equivalent.
Normal Jade warlord/Lao-Chin's has +185 and for paladins has 416 less effective mastery, for warriors 827 less effective mastery equivalent.

We'll see if any fights require excessive stam stacking and trinkets are generally a boss to boss choice on which is best, but the new DMF trinket is extremely powerful just for the fact that they didn't nerf the click affect when they added the stam.