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Thread: PST - Episode 99

  1. #21
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    I Play Horde an a vastly alliance populated realm, I did the Icecrown daily Ion was talking about. I had that thing in my log for over 2 years and handed it in maybe 3 times. That rep offered an ilvl 200 epic, that was entry level raiding equivalent. exactly the same as the GL dailies do now.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    I Play Horde an a vastly alliance populated realm, I did the Icecrown daily Ion was talking about. I had that thing in my log for over 2 years and handed it in maybe 3 times. That rep offered an ilvl 200 epic, that was entry level raiding equivalent. exactly the same as the GL dailies do now.
    One item vs multiple choices of items on all the rep vendors? It's not really a fair comparison. Why are people complaining about dailies. They don't want to do them. Why do they feel like they have to do them? They .
    Last edited by joshvolt; 10-11-2012 at 01:31 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshvolt View Post
    Why are people complaining about dailies. They don't want to do them. Why do they feel like they have to do them?
    Because Elder Charms of Good Fortune, at least, will always be required. So we're stuck in a cycle of ALWAYS doing at least enough dailies to get our 90 Lesser Charms of Good Fortune for the week (which is somewhere between 45 and 90 per week, depending on what quests you do).

    Plus the only reliable way of getting Spirits of Harmony is to farm them up (you need at least revered with the Tillers, but at that point you might as well get exalted too for an extra 4 motes/day).
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  4. #24
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    About Dailies:

    Blizzard did say that they wanted people to be able to choose what content they wanted to do to progress their character. However, they also said they want raiders to be required to do just a bit more than log in and raid. In other words, if you *choose* to progress your character through raiding, then reputation grinds and dailies are part of that content. Reputations aren't contrary to their design intent; they are simply part and parcel of raiding. Really, they always have been, every expansion - just that we were allowed to cheat in Wrath and Cata through the tabard system.

    As Lore pointed out earlier, the rep grinds aren't particularly honest. Thanks to VP throttling, you can choose to do fewer dailies without really getting too far behind.

    One thing I will say is perhaps there's a bit *too much* to do here at the start of MoP. Even if all you do is Golden Lotus, Klaaxxi and the Tillers that's still a lot to do. They probably overdid it in the dailies department.

    The question for me is - what else could they have done besides dailies to get raiders to do something other than raiding for just a little bit, and get people out and exploring Pandaria?

    - non-required reputations wouldn't have worked. Personally, if all we had were the Cloud Serpent and Lorewalker reputations, I wouldn't be doing dailies.

    - If we removed the VP requirement for reputation gear, that would make doing all those dailies *more* required (because you could pick up the gear as soon as you met the reputation requirement).

    - Charms of good fortune might have been enough to get folks out into the world doing just a few dailies every day, but I don't think I'd want to have to do dailies just for charms.

    - Bringing back the tabard system just allows you to completely skip reputations. Essentially, they want to make actually going out and doing quests required for raiders, and the tabard system allowed us to cheat on that requirement.

    I think the solution would be to just tone down the number of dailies required. The Golden Lotus wasn't too bad at Friendly, but once I got to Honored and opened up another zone I went "ugh" not "yay!". Reduce the number of dailies, and perhaps let quests give a bit more reputation. We should be able to do all of our required rep grinds in a month or so, and then we can rely on things like world bosses (a big success imo) and Charms of Good Fortune to get raiders out into the world more.

    On Symbiosis:

    I think it's fine that some classes get crap. Cata Dark Intent was amazing for some and terrible for others, same with Focus Magic. It can't give raw performance (DPS/Healing) increases. Giving tanks an extra cooldown is definitely pushing the line. However, giving extra utility is good, and sometimes the devs have PVP in mind more than PVE. Mages are more inclined to like having a heal in PVP than in PVE, for instance. Also, an extra survivability CD (iceblock) is useful on a healer in PVE.

    Ret Paladins just aren't the intended targets.

  5. #25
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    Apparently Symbiosis-Wrath for prot palas does a ton of damage, I heard it scaled as something like 60k+140% AP

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knighterrant81 View Post
    One thing I will say is perhaps there's a bit *too much* to do here at the start of MoP. Even if all you do is Golden Lotus, Klaaxxi and the Tillers that's still a lot to do. They probably overdid it in the dailies department.
    On the other hand, it was quite refreshing after the tedium of having nothing to do at the end of Cataclysm. And it will pass. I'm done with Klaxxi and Cloud Serpent now. That's made quite a big difference - I now do only two factions' dailies - Tillers and Golden Lotus - both of which I am close to done with. Then I will be left with only AC and Shado-Pan on my main. A couple of factions dailies seems reasonable and it's not as if you have to do them every day (shortage of VPs more than shortage of rep seems to be the constraint on gearing).

    For me, the issue is more about the quality of the dailies. I just despise the Golden Lotus ones. Maybe it's because I do them in tank spec, but they remind of Isle of Quel'danas before the pre-Wrath patch made tanks do decent dps. It's like whacking stuff with a wooden spoon - and rather hard to group em all up to kill. Plus they seem to lack any sense of character, drama, humour or interest.

    By contrast, the Tillers and Serpent dailies seemed fine - maybe because they were less combat focussed and more "fun".

    Beyond that, rep grinds seem ok for mains but horrible for alts. They are repetitive even for one character; it would be cruel and unusual self-punishment to do them for ten. I have a raft of alts for their professions, but doubt I will do many dailies with them. Tillers if they need spirits. I'm not even sure I could face a rep grind for a few recipes.

  7. #27
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    On the other hand, it was quite refreshing after the tedium of having nothing to do at the end of Cataclysm. And it will pass. I'm done with Klaxxi and Cloud Serpent now. That's made quite a big difference - I now do only two factions' dailies - Tillers and Golden Lotus - both of which I am close to done with. Then I will be left with only AC and Shado-Pan on my main. A couple of factions dailies seems reasonable and it's not as if you have to do them every day (shortage of VPs more than shortage of rep seems to be the constraint on gearing).

    For me, the issue is more about the quality of the dailies. I just despise the Golden Lotus ones. Maybe it's because I do them in tank spec, but they remind of Isle of Quel'danas before the pre-Wrath patch made tanks do decent dps. It's like whacking stuff with a wooden spoon - and rather hard to group em all up to kill. Plus they seem to lack any sense of character, drama, humour or interest.

    By contrast, the Tillers and Serpent dailies seemed fine - maybe because they were less combat focussed and more "fun".

    Beyond that, rep grinds seem ok for mains but horrible for alts. They are repetitive even for one character; it would be cruel and unusual self-punishment to do them for ten. I have a raft of alts for their professions, but doubt I will do many dailies with them. Tillers if they need spirits. I'm not even sure I could face a rep grind for a few recipes.
    I only do tillers and Golden Lotus and thank Blizzard every day for the valor point cap. I just don't have time to do the Klaxxi right now. I'll get to them later. I got to honored with the Klaxxi just through leveling anyway.

    Thinking about this a bit more, the thing that annoys me the most about dailies is you have to do them every day, or you fall behind. Some of us have lives! What if you could choose to do more now, and some later, without really falling behind? Make them weeklies, somehow? Or maybe you could get some sort of drop while doing dailies that you could use as a "get out of dailies free" card - completes all your dailies for one faction that day instantly. You could use this for the days when you're just a bit too busy irl to take care of dailies, but you are still required to go out in the world to get this item, and you'll still be required to do a fair amount of dailies anyway.

    I am really excited that we're all out in the world more. It seems to really have livened up the server community and given that sense of exploration we were going for. It just seems like dailies are just a bit too required and a bit too extensive. They could dial it back just a tad and it would be fine.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knighterrant81 View Post
    Thinking about this a bit more, the thing that annoys me the most about dailies is you have to do them every day, or you fall behind. Some of us have lives! What if you could choose to do more now, and some later, without really falling behind?
    This is my problem as well. I'm down to Tillers and Golden Lotus and some days I can't even do both of those (like...weekday raid nights).

    I wake up, try to at least do a couple tiller dailies, go to work, work out, eat dinner, and then log in and on raid days I am invited to the raid and am one of the last people to sign in. On non-raid days I have a couple hours of time to do dailies and maybe a dungeon...so I have time for Tillers, Golden Lotus and a dungeon or two and my time is done.

    And my guildmates are saying "you should do PvP so you can get some upgrades from there too"...I have no TIME (or particular inclination) to do that too...bleh on this whole grindy expansion.
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  9. #29
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    I don't understand what kind of questions people would have for you other then, who are you? and why are you answering questions about a video game..? are you a developer, or a player?

  10. #30
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    Oct 2012
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    hey lore,
    So my main is a Hunter, and it's been one since BC. so here is the thing, all through bc, Wotlk ,and cata i was always on top of Dps charts all through these expansions in raids, but as soon as mop came out I'm struggling to stay above the tanks in my group. I love my hunter, and raiding but if I can't fully understand my hunter any more...
    with hunters having to reforge gear into expertise we lose a lot of haste, and it just feels to me we lose so much dps when were not haste capped.

    Also don't you think kitty druids and blood dks should be nerfed cause there damage output and how dks can just easily heal them selves while tankign a raid boss while pulling so much dps...
    Last edited by shael; 10-12-2012 at 06:58 PM.

  11. #31
    Just FYI guys, this post is not where to ask questions for PST #100 - PM them to me
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  12. #32
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    Symbiosis is just crap. As a dk I don't even have it on my bar which puts it on par with needing death gate on my bar.

    Dailies are just a grind, personally once I get to revered I stop doing that factions dailies. Right now I'm only doing shado-pan and celestials with cloud serpents being whenever i randomly feel like it. These dailies should keep bringing in enough charms for the week plus some. I'll only continue dailies when I need more charms or VP.

    If you want to raid whether with a guild group (that doesn't just raid when 10 ppl are on) or with pugs, having the rep gear is going to be required because getting the rep rewards shows that you're willing to put in the work to better your toon. Just like having proper enchants and gems.

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