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Thread: PST - Episode 99

  1. #1

    PST - Episode 99



    This week:
    4:27 - Why is there only one way to earn rep in MoP?
    10:43 - What about recipes and other faction rewards?
    15:46 - How should Blizzard implement the new character models?
    19:07 - Why not make Valor points BoA?
    23:07 - Could the Tillers farm technology be used to create player housing?
    27:28 - How do the recent hotfixes to Symbiosis make you feel about the ability?
    34:14 - Should racials be disabled for challenge modes?
    39:37 - Are you ever going to watch Breaking Bad?
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  2. #2
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    Hey Lore,
    With so much negativity (flaming/trolling etc) in the WoW community in general, what keeps you playing? Do you find the negativity in the community taxing or that it takes away from the game?

  3. #3
    I think the reason that there's "only 1" option for reputation gains is because when you have multiple options it tends to move towards there being a "best" way to do it which then that becomes "the only" way because the less efficient methods are completely ignored. Case in point, there already are additional options for earning rep with the Klaxxi, Golden Lotus and Order of the Cloud Serpent (eggs, dread amber shards and ancient cache keys), but these methods are even grindier than the dailies and far less efficient to the point that people mostly don't even count them (ignoring the people that spend hour upon hour farming eggs). That as pointed out if they went back to the tabard system then that would likely become the optimal method for earning reputation (especially if you get together with a group of guildies, friends or even random pugs just to que together and farm heroics for rep) and then dailies would pretty much be ignored.

    It's a tough balance to try to make multiple paths that are all equally viable so that people really are able to "play how they want to play". 9 times out of 10 one of those paths will wind up being the best and therefore only valid path, rendering all the other "options" as pointless. The issue isn't actually that there's "only 1" option, it's that that option is daily quests and a lot of people don't like it (actually the issue is that we were all spoiled for the past 4 years where we could just put on tabards and get reputation for doing things we pretty much did anyways).

    On the argument of "why do we need to do single-player content for rep in a multi-player game", let's face it, virtually all of the multi-player content in the game is instanced: dungeons, scenarios, raids, arenas, battlegrounds. The only non-instanced form of multi-player content are world bosses, group quests (which have all-but been removed from the game) and world pvp, and none of those are particularly well-suited to reputation gains. And Blizzard clearly want to try to get us back out in the open world, so....yeah, multi-player content isn't really an option for them.


    I think the real problem in regards to the daily quests and rep grinds is simply a matter of how people view the situation rather than an actual problem. For example, most people are looking at the valor gear as "valor gear that requires reputation to buy", as opposed to looking at it as "reputation gear that you buy with valor", and there's a HUGE difference between those viewpoints: Valor gear is typically easy to get, valor capping every week is simple and then you just buy the gear, so adding reputation requirements makes it a lot more involved to get and that seems like a terrible change. On the other hand Reputation gear has always been more of a hassle to get, so adding valor requirements to it isn't that big of a deal. So how you view it completely changes how bad it is.

    The other one is like you've pointed out several times: people *think* they need to do ALL of the dailies and grind ALL of the factions asap, when they really do not. If you do all of the dailies every day you will earn reputation and charms far faster than you can really benefit from them. So you really don't need to do all of them. At most you only "need" to do enough dailies so that you earn 90 lesser charms per week (that's like what 7 dailies per day) and that you earn reputation fast enough to spend your valor (which is roughly around 3000 reputation per week, which is actually only around 4 or 5 dailies per day). But because people view the reputation gear as something they think they need to unlock right away, and in part because blizzard removed the daily quest limit, people think that they need to do every daily every day.

    Extending that further, a lot of the dailies currently available aren't even related to valor gear and are even further removed from "mandatory". Only Klaxxi, and Golden Lotus are "required", until you've unlocked the Shado-Pan and August Celestials (and by then you're effectively done with Golden Lotus). Tillers perhaps too just so you can grow your mats for things. But Anglers, and Cloud Serpent factions are just purely cosmetic factions.

    In other words, *most* of the problems that people are complaining about are problems they're just imagining.
    Last edited by The_Pancake; 10-09-2012 at 01:20 PM.

  4. #4
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    Klaxxi were an absolutely prime target for making work like the Argent Dawn back in classic.

    Rep up to a certain level from killing world mob mantid.
    Rep up to a higher level / cap via mantid themed dungeons.
    Rep up to cap via dailies.

    Breaking things up with a bit of variety would have made things significantly better.

    That said -

    Golden Lotus do have cache keys - I was able to hit 6k into revered already thanks to them.
    Serpent Riders have the eggs - nowhere near common enough to farm though.
    Tillers have farming - it'll take forever, but I've got level 85 alts parked at the tillers faction collecting cooking mats for my main, their rep is slowly creeping up.

    I certainly think more variety should have been in place though.

    Also, symbiosis is great. My warlock gets regrowth! It's giving me back all the self healing that was stripped from my class outside of major defensive cooldowns this expansion! [/sarcasm]
    Last edited by Nagassh; 10-09-2012 at 07:05 PM.

  5. #5
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    The urge to ask what your butt smells like..... WHY MUST YOU PLANT IDEAS IN OUR BRAINS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

  6. #6
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    So far Blizzard's attitude towards challenge modes seems to be that (1) gold medals are attainable without doing anything specific or onerous, and (2) if the top leaderboard spot requires doing something very specific, that's okay, and they'd rather not neuter the game in challenge modes to prevent it. So engineering devices are okay, consumables are okay, etc.. So I wouldn't expect racial bonuses to be disabled unless it becomes really obvious that it's a big faction balance problem. If it just turns out that there are a lot of pandas in the top leaderboard teams, I think the attitude will be "well, nothing stops you from rolling a panda." With gear normalization it's not too onerous to outfit an alt specifically for challenge modes, if you're the kind of player who is gunning for a top leaderboard spot.

  7. #7
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    Sorry Lore, but you didn't limit us to one question per person so tons of questions incoming.

    About the question related to dailies, first I agree with The_Pancake. Now trying to imagine a fix: Given a tabard form honored with whatever faction, if random heroics dungeons (final bosses mandatory) give enough reputation that if you spend the double of time doing them that you do doing the dailies you reach a daily cap set by your status with a faction, this cap could be weekly so you can reach it via dailies or if you cant login everyday you can catch up with dungeons. But this method should be clearly a secondary non-preferred method for gaining reputation, then you have to evaluate what you want, on one side 463 gear on the other side Charms of good fortune plus doing the reputation in half of the time. Is a trade off, Blizzard puts the outside the walls environment to be consumed but if you really don't want anything this or you want to spice it a bit, you can run some dungeons.

  8. #8
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    It's not just Healing Touch, for Mages. It's Healing Touch with a 10s Cooldown. Figure that one out.

  9. #9
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    With respect to Symbiosis, there's really no reason to put it on any other class than a shaman as a Feral. Enhance shamans get Solar Beam from it which is fairly useful in things like Challenge Modes and PvP but other than that it's kinda meh.

    It's not that it's a "difficult" and "complex" spell, it's more along the lines of "Why would you give this class that spell?" What you mentioned near the end of that segment I would agree with though, just as long as they left alone what benefits the druid gets from the target.

    What I would like to see is them fixing the range issues on it >.<

  10. #10
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    The reason I want BoA options (even if they're more expensive that way) is that my main is a holy paladin. I really can't do dailies as holy - or if I did, it would really suck. I don't really gear my ret spec, but I have it so that I can do dailies. I absolutely hate it though. Ret sucks.

    I also have an enhancement shaman which I love playing for this kind of content. I'll grind dailies on him as much as I need to because it's fun doing that kind of content on him.

    Why should I have to do dailies on a healer (whose only real purpose is to heal other people in dungeons and raids) when I really enjoy doing those dailies on a toon that's meant for doing that kind of content? I wouldn't mind the grind if I could at least have fun doing it.

  11. #11
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    Quick question: What are your feelings on DPS mellee classes being at such a disadvantage on the majority of raid bosses that they are becoming unviable, and a poor second choice to bring to a raid while ranged dps are avalible? Any idea's to make things more balanced?

  12. #12
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    Just to respond to your first quest. From my understanding, you don't have to hit exalted with all the factions. So... i don't understand what the issue is. There is plenty of stuff to do other then farm these and you don't have to do it everyday.

    I think most people will take the easy route.. so if blizzard wanted to get people back into the world.. please propose something else that would work.. remember that most of the group content is instanced.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobel View Post
    so if blizzard wanted to get people back into the world.. please propose something else that would work.. remember that most of the group content is instanced.
    Forcing people who don't WANT to be in the world to be in the world won't have the desired effect.

    I'm on a nominally-PvP server...I have hardly seen any alliance at all, much less gotten into "world PvP battles" with them. And when I DO see them, we're both just doing our crappy dailies to get our crappy "rewards". The idea that we might inconvenience ourselves with a pointless fight never even occurs...

    The world feels populated by having people to be able to do the things you want to do, not having an assload of people randomly doing dailies that they wouldn't otherwise do just so they can be successful at the part of the game that they DO enjoy playing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  14. #14
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    I'm on a nominally-PvP server...I have hardly seen any alliance at all, much less gotten into "world PvP battles" with them. And when I DO see them, we're both just doing our crappy dailies to get our crappy "rewards". The idea that we might inconvenience ourselves with a pointless fight never even occurs...
    Same here. If I see alliance players, they keep themselves to themselves. We kill the Mogu behemoth together because that thing has 6 times as much health as Ragnaros did in MC and the boring quests go faster that way. While levelling it was the same - hardly any PvP interaction at all. The only PvP I have witnessed was when an alliance ran through our AoE at lowish health while doing daily quests and died (my first PvP kill in months).

    People are out in the world when they need to be out in the world. They go farm some ore - and return to the city. They go do their 45 daily quests for the 90 lesser charms for that week - and return to the city. They go and tend to their farm - and return to the city. When all 6 parts of LFR are out, the only time you will need to leave a city is to do 20 minutes of daily quests at the Tillers farm or to fly to the guild raid (each LFR clear grants 90 VP, so 540 in total; 45 dailies is 225 VP, up to 765 total; kill 9 raid bosses on one of the proper difficulties and you have your 1000 VP for the week).

  15. #15
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    are your guy's pvp servers balanced? Or does one have a big population size over the other so it's "rare-ish" to see the other faction. The first few days I was leveling I had tons of world PvP on my server that has a fairly balanced mix of horde and alliance. And it was fun. Way more fun than questing, and there were enough of both factions around to make it interesting.

    Having said that, I agree with Ion to a large extent, although blizzard has tended to fail miserably in the past with making PvP centric zones. The best world PvP is spontaneous, and blizzard has only managed to accidentally foster PvP like that in the past (Tarren Mill vs. South shore). So... idk how you make it so that people who want to be out in the world are out in the world without mixing in some people that don't want to be out in the world. Idk, it's a great design question especially b/c I don't think the standard "reward" structure really works in world PvP because the reason people DO world PvP is because THAT is the reward. They're not doing it for quests or gold or gear or to kill giant pixel monsters.

    I think anyone that complains about PvP on a PvP server doesn't really have a right to bitch about it, but if you guys want to be care bears and just grind through the quests, I'm perfectly okay with that. And if someone jumps you stop sucking and beat them or call in a bunch of friends! =P
    If you don't like it, get off the server.
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  16. #16
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    Unbalanced...very much a horde server.

    I'm on a PvP server because when I went to this server PvP wasn't goat ass. Now, unfortunately, it is and I have no desire to do it...my guild is here and "world PvP" isn't really a thing so I don't see any particular reason to change.

    I like how when you suggest that you don't enjoy PvP in its current state, though, people assume you're bad at it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  17. #17
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    On a PVP server the dailies put you out in the world where you might fight some other player.
    On a PVE server they put you out in the world where you can just watch someone ninja your carrots while you are killing the mobs.

  18. #18
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    Forcing people who don't WANT to be in the world to be in the world won't have the desired effect.
    Well it at least gives more of a chance that the player will be pvp'd if they are out in the world doing dailies over sitting in town. I think they should add a daily that you pick up from your shrine that is like kill 20-25 enemy players out in the world and rewards a sack that contains gold and a token that gives some rep with your choice of faction. That will add some pvp.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshvolt View Post
    Well it at least gives more of a chance that the player will be pvp'd if they are out in the world doing dailies over sitting in town. I think they should add a daily that you pick up from your shrine that is like kill 20-25 enemy players out in the world and rewards a sack that contains gold and a token that gives some rep with your choice of faction. That will add some pvp.
    No it won't...unless it just boosts you directly to exalted it's not worth the bother. Other players fight back...they're FAR more difficult to kill than mobs, it's quicker to just do quests and not bother with "pvp dailies" (they had them in Icecrown too...you probably didn't know...nobody ever did them). Not to mention faction imbalances...I see maybe a total of 4 alliance players a day. I'd have to kill them each 5+ times in your scenario...sounds awful.

    Trying to force world PvP on a population that doesn't care about it is pointless. World PvP is a thing of the past...it was spontaneous then...trying to force it now will just not work. Let the idea die.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  20. #20
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    No it won't...unless it just boosts you directly to exalted it's not worth the bother. Other players fight back...they're FAR more difficult to kill than mobs, it's quicker to just do quests and not bother with "pvp dailies" (they had them in Icecrown too...you probably didn't know...nobody ever did them). Not to mention faction imbalances...I see maybe a total of 4 alliance players a day. I'd have to kill them each 5+ times in your scenario...sounds awful.

    Trying to force world PvP on a population that doesn't care about it is pointless. World PvP is a thing of the past...it was spontaneous then...trying to force it now will just not work. Let the idea die.
    So you don't think anyone would be interested in a daily like that? I know a few people that would group up and do that daily. I'm pretty sure people would form up raids to complete that daily. Getting any more amount of rep with any faction would be desirable. People are already farming Scritch as much as they can to have a chance at a rep boost. You wouldn't want extra rep with the golden lotus to hit revered quicker or extra rep with the shadow pan or celestials. I know I would.

    The Ice crown quest didn't reward anything desirable, that's the problem with it. I'm thinking people would jump at the chance for shadow pan rep.

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