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Thread: Mogu'Shan Vaults - Stone Guard

  1. #1

    Mogu'Shan Vaults - Stone Guard




    Quote Originally Posted by Lore
    What's up guys, and welcome to the Mogu'shan Vaults raid guide. My name is Lore, and today I'll be walking you through the 10-man normal version of the Stone Guard encounter. A lot of this information will still be relevant to the 25-man version, however there are some key differences between the two that will result in some strategy changes.

    Stone Guard is a council-style fight consisting of 4 possible Quilien guardians - Jade, Cobalt, Jasper, and Amethyst. On 10-man, only three of these will be active. Which three you get will be randomly chosen when you first enter the instance and remain that way for the rest of the week. In this kill, we had the Jade, Jasper, and Amethyst guardians.

    Each guardian has one unique ability, most of which are pretty simple to deal with. The Amethyst guardian will create small purple puddles on the ground beneath random raid members. They deal a significant amount of damage, but are pretty small and easy enough to just move away from.

    We didn't have the Cobalt guardian in this pull, but his ability ends up being somewhat similar. He'll create cobalt mines on random players, which have a 3-second arming time. Once they're armed, anyone standing near one will detonate it, which causes a fairly substantial amount of damage and roots them in place. Again, you'll just want to stay away from these. If you find yourselves running out of space, however, you can have a designated player use a survivability cooldown, such as Divine Shield, and trigger them manually.

    The Jade guardian's ability is pretty straightforward -- every 10 seconds, he casts an AOE damage pulse. It's not a ton of damage, at least not on normal mode, so you'll just need to heal through it.

    The Jasper guardian's ability is a little more complicated. He'll link two players together with a Jasper Chain. If those players are more than 10 yards away from each other, they'll take increasing Fire damage the longer they're apart. Now, the chains can be broken by spending a total of 15 seconds apart from each other -- it doesn't have to be all at once, just a total of 15 seconds. However, as long as those players are together, the chains deal no damage at all. We found it easiest to just have the chained players stick together and not worry so much about breaking the chains.

    The main mechanics of the Stone Guard encounter are Petrification and Overload. Right after the fight begins, a random guardian will start to petrify. You'll see a warning in the middle of the screen, and that guardian will also start to glow a bit. You'll see an extra meter, either as its own bar near the middle of your screen, or possibly as part of an addon. In this video, it's the grey bar at the bottom of my unit frame, underneath my mana. As that bar fills, you'll take less and less damage from that Guardian's abilities -- so for example, when Jasper is petrifying, that'd be a good time to break Jasper Chains. However, if that meter fills, everyone in the raid will be completely paralyzed, which means a wipe.

    To avoid this, you need to abuse the Overload mechanic. Each Guardian has an energy bar of their own. That energy bar will fill as long as they're within 10 yards of another guardian -- so as you can see here, the one guardian off by himself is currently not gaining energy, while the two that are together are. Once that meter fills, the guardian will overload, which interrupts their petrification, but also deals a massive amount of damage to the raid.

    So, you need to get the guardian that's currently petrifying to overload. Due to the petrification, the AOE damage will be much more manageable, and it'll cancel the petrification process. The trick is to get ONLY the petrifying guardian to overload. To do this, you'll need your tanks to do some fancy juggling. On the pull, one tank will take two of the guardians will the other holds one by himself. Make sure one of the two guardians being tanked together is the one petrifying -- you may need to swap targets around a bit on the pull to achieve this. Also, make sure both tanks are far enough apart that the guardian by itself isn't gaining any energy.

    Once the petrifying guardian is at 50 energy, the tank who's currently holding 1 guardian should taunt him over. He'll now be holding two guardians -- the one who's petrifying, which should be at around 50 energy, and another guardian who should have close to none. Meanwhile, the guardian left on the other tank should also stop gaining energy. Eventually, the petrifying guardian will reach full energy, overload, and his energy will be reset, leaving you with two guardians at about half energy and one at 0.

    From here it's just a matter of juggling them around to make sure that you always have the Petrifying guardian being tanked alongside the guardian with the lowest energy, which would obviously be the one that just reset. If that happens to be the two that are already being tanked together, great! Nothing to worry about. If the guardian by himself starts to petrify, that tank should just taunt the low-energy guardian over to him. Remember, that's the one that just reset. Just keep that in mind, and it's really not too difficult once you get the hang of it.

    Now, obviously that's going to get quite a bit more complicated in 25-man, but the basic principle is the same -- you want the Petrifying guardian and the low-energy guardian being tanked together, and the other two guardians off by themselves. The easiest way to manage that is to just use three tanks. It'll take a good deal more coordination, and communication will be extremely important, but it's still very much doable.

    Healers and DPS have a much more straightforward job -- just stay out of things, deal damage, and keep people alive. Remember, the guardians have a shared health pool, so make use of cleaves and multi-dotting as much as possible.

    Otherwise, that pretty much sums it up! It's basically the same encounter from start to finish. There's no phase changes or new abilities to worry about -- if you can get through one overload, you can kill em. It's just a matter of getting the motions down, learning to juggle, and staying out of things.
    Last edited by Lore; 10-26-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Easiest way we found to do this for 10 man was each tank start on each side picking up the their respective dogs and slowly kite towards the entrance, then turning around if needed. Tanks also need to make sure they are within taunt range of the other dogs.
    to start off we had the tank with one dog taunt the dog not casting petrify @ 50 energy and the tank with 2 dogs taunts the other tanks dog. This is to stagger the Overloads, which really don't do much damage if done correctly.
    So 1 tank will have only 1 dog the entire time and the other tank 2 dogs (except while the dogs are being taunted). Essentially the idea here is to keep the dog casting petrify with the tank that is supposed to be tanking 2 dogs. There will be a cast like bar that appears on your screen showing the petrify cast.

    This is from my PoV as a tank. As far as what dps does other than not standing in fire, I'm not real sure about.

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    Thank you for the video

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    Is it a shared boss healthpool? Or do have to keep them within a certain % of eachother?

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    @uglie

    We tried the more complicated tank switching at first, but ended up using a method similar to Lore after slow taunt related wipes; much, much simpler.
    Last edited by Krenian; 10-08-2012 at 06:10 AM.

  7. #7
    If you have one tank who is much stronger than the other (for whatever reason) the "one tank always holds 2" method can work well
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    If you have one tank who is much stronger than the other (for whatever reason) the "one tank always holds 2" method can work well
    If it's a gear issue, sure, but if it's a skill gap you could very well cause more chaos with the taunt swaps. I speak from experience here, we wiped for a long time to slow or incorrect taunts so we changed to the simpler method and soon enough we had a kill. What's even more telling is that we lost the weaker tank at 15% and our strong one took all three, no sweat, with everyone rotating CDs for the off charges.
    Last edited by Krenian; 10-08-2012 at 06:12 AM.

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    It seems to me, there is a trade off. If you swap as seen in this video, your melee have to swap as well which could cost you a little dps. On the other hand, this allows for tank cds to come off cooldown so that the tank with two has more freedom to pop cds. They can rest (a little) on the knowledge that they will soon be only tanking one and won't need them for a while.

    If dps is your raid group's biggest hurdle, you might be better off keeping the active quilen on the same tank all the time.

    If tank-goes-boom is the bigger issue, then swapping the active quilen would seem to be better.
    Last edited by Lore; 10-08-2012 at 06:02 PM.

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    The problem with a simultanious taunt (or having the same tank keep 2 the whole fight) is that as they cross each other they gain extra ticks of energy which can really throw off the rotation later in the fight and cause the wrong one to explode. This is from personal experience, my raid tried this for the first 2 hours and we were going no where and fast, we kept having the wrong one explode and wipe us.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    The problem with a simultanious taunt (or having the same tank keep 2 the whole fight) is that as they cross each other they gain extra ticks of energy which can really throw off the rotation later in the fight and cause the wrong one to explode. This is from personal experience, my raid tried this for the first 2 hours and we were going no where and fast, we kept having the wrong one explode and wipe us.
    When were you taunting? @ low energy (10 energy) 50 energy? We were taunting as soon as we knew there needed to be a switch. If the taunt switches are slow I could see this being a probably.

    Melee heavy comps I can see having more dps via 1 tank always has 2 method.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    If you have one tank who is much stronger than the other (for whatever reason) the "one tank always holds 2" method can work well
    We did this, having the mobs crisscrossing past each other and any hiccups with a taunted mob going back can be more trouble than it's worth, we stuck with what we were doing until we got the kill, but we'll probably be using the pingpong strategy you used in the guide in future - it'd take a large gap to make it worth the hassle.

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    In the video you had the same 3 stone dogs active as our group last night. How did you deal with amethyst pools? You mention to move out of them but our group was getting flooded with them. So much that the only way to manage them was to kite the boss around the room. Which made positioning for melee and ranged really difficult.

    Also is there any trick to having your ranged always be chained to other ranged? The reason the pools became increasingly difficult was that the ranged and healers kept getting chained to melee resulting in all the pools around the boss making us kite and take extra damage.

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    Hey Lore can you update the post about your UI? you have some mods I want Thanks :-)

  15. #15
    What is the raid comp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piratehooker View Post
    Hey Lore can you update the post about your UI? you have some mods I want Thanks :-)
    This

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    For 10m
    If amethyst dog is not present we found that it was easier to stack the dps and healers into 2 separate spots 10 yards from each other and just eat the cobalt ice mines. This eliminated the need to move for chains, and allowed the healers to keep casting. If amethyst puppy is up we basically stack to force the pools into one particular spot keeping only the healers separated about 5 yards apart and 10 yards behind the other group so that if one gets a pool the other 2 don't have to move.

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    Should the tanks be handling the swap decisions themselves, or should someone be calling it out for them? We spent a full evening on ten man (green, blue and red) last night and the best we got was a very rough 65%. Throughout Cata we were typically a midway-through-heroics-before-nerfs type of guild, so hitting a brick wall on the first normal boss was pretty discouraging. I'm fairly confident it wasn't a gear issue.

    We usually have the main tank lead the raid, but he couldn't see enough to make the calls, so a couple of us DPS tried it instead. I found the person keeping track of which tank needs to taunt which guardian and when absolutely killed our raid performance - there was just too much going on at one time. I might just be out of practice, but on the set of attempts I made the calls, I spent most of the fight dead from catching the edges of mines or not reacting to chains quickly enough. Those things weren't difficult, otherwise.

    It seems like an addon would make the swaps in this encounter easy, but I wasn't able to find one. One wrong or late call always resulted in a wipe, and often it isn't immediately clear which to swap.

    Any suggestions?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by screwzloos View Post
    Should the tanks be handling the swap decisions themselves, or should someone be calling it out for them? We spent a full evening on ten man (green, blue and red) last night and the best we got was a very rough 65%. Throughout Cata we were typically a midway-through-heroics-before-nerfs type of guild, so hitting a brick wall on the first normal boss was pretty discouraging. I'm fairly confident it wasn't a gear issue.We usually have the main tank lead the raid, but he couldn't see enough to make the calls, so a couple of us DPS tried it instead. I found the person keeping track of which tank needs to taunt which guardian and when absolutely killed our raid performance - there was just too much going on at one time. I might just be out of practice, but on the set of attempts I made the calls, I spent most of the fight dead from catching the edges of mines or not reacting to chains quickly enough. Those things weren't difficult, otherwise.It seems like an addon would make the swaps in this encounter easy, but I wasn't able to find one. One wrong or late call always resulted in a wipe, and often it isn't immediately clear which to swap.Any suggestions?
    Simplified taunt rotation if your tanks need help. 1) if you have 2 of them ... Forget about everything but staying alive ... 2) if you are tanking only one boss ... Target the currently empowered boss and set it as your focus ... Wait for it to explode wait a few seconds and stare at your bosses feet ... If you see a giant glowing circle hit your target focus taunt focus macro and proceed to focus on nothing but staying alive ... If you don't see a circle repeat step 2 till you do ...

    While it may seem like I am dumbing things down or coming across as arrogant that is actually how I do it and what I tell myself every explosion.
    Last edited by Darksend; 10-12-2012 at 06:11 PM.



  20. #20
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    Oh one additional thought on that ... My co-tank and I, whenever we are tanking 1 boss, without even realizing it starting saying "I am taunting x if mine gets it" to the point that now on vent any time you hear both voices almost simultaneously "I am getting x if mine gets it" "you are taunting x if yours gets it" ... It is that reassurance that makes the fight so much easier and settles us both down letting us get into a rhythm ... We have been tanking together as main tank off tank since sunwell so that probably helps us a lot but your tanks will get there eventually



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