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Thread: Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin

  1. #81
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    So, I've been giving this a bit of thought, basically: I wish we could have Eternal Flame as a talent and still be able to use Word of Glory. (if wishes were horses, w/e) While overall, yes EF will do much more healing, there are certain situations where WoG acts as a quite substantial "OH SHIT" button, or as an immediate counter to a Tank Killing Laser of Doom. But basically I don't like not having it there as an instant restore if I need it. For this reason i've been sticking with Sacred Shield, even in it's nerfed form it still feels like it offers me the greatest utility of my class.
    Thoughts, opinions? Greg, you're off your rocker because math?

  2. #82
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    compare http://www.wowhead.com/spell=130551 to http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114163 is not the initial heal somewhat similar
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  3. #83
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    Yeah, according to the tooltip Math says I'm just 100% wrong, EF's inital has WoG beat by about 500. For whatever reason it seemed like WoG was doing more than EF's initial when I was testing it out on live during patch week. Thanks for setting me straight though.

  4. #84
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    Well i can't log in at the moment so maybe I'm wrong, or maybe there's a bug.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  5. #85
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    Fun fact, AMR now lists Windsong as the bis weapon enchant.

    Oh, and Fetz, the tank legendary cloak got nerfed from a one minute to a two minute cd. I don't know when, but your guide has it listed as a 1 min still. So, bottom of section 11 needs an edit.

  6. #86
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    Yeah, I'm swapping to Windsong when I get a new weapon. We have so much Attack Power from Vengeance that that 3k AP from the Strength enchant just disappears into the noise.

    Changed the order of the enchants and the cooldown of the cloak.
    Last edited by Fetzie; 10-01-2013 at 05:29 AM.

  7. #87
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    I've been asked to tank on my pally for this tier and last lockout I did flex to get a bit of gear since I'm at 512 for my tank set. I noticed that my dmg intake was pretty spiky at times so I was hoping to get some ideas for how to improve. I've been running a middle of the road build with sta/mastery, so I was thinking that maybe I need more haste to keep SotR up, but I'd love to hear what you have to say.

  8. #88
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    Do you have an armory link?
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  9. #89
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    Yes, http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...elene/advanced, but I've already switched my mastery gems for haste so it's not exactly the build I was using.

  10. #90
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    Just /camp and log back in and it should auto-update for us.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  11. #91
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    What you see on armory is the current setup, but this is not the same as I was running with last week. I regemmed yesterday because I thought I'd try more haste today but I decided I might as well ask for some pointers before I put it to the test.

  12. #92
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    Oooh I see what you mean. Gotcha, hadn't clicked on the link yet =P.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  13. #93
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    Well, for starters you're not quite following the basic stat prioriteis for a haste build.
    7.5% hit > 15% expertise > haste > mastery > avoidance
    So basically, get expertise hard capped by any means necessary before you worry about stacking haste.

  14. #94
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    Is it really worth it? I mean at my current level I get parried 1 of 13 times, while my haste gives me 11.3% more attacks (essentially) and also makes the class play less sluggish (I'm used to tanking on my DK). Would it really make so much of a difference, Holy Power and survivability wise?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerich View Post
    Is it really worth it? I mean at my current level I get parried 1 of 13 times, while my haste gives me 11.3% more attacks (essentially) and also makes the class play less sluggish (I'm used to tanking on my DK). Would it really make so much of a difference, Holy Power and survivability wise?
    It doesn't really help that your gear has a load of dodge and parry rating on it. You ideally want items with expertise/haste, hit/haste, expertise/mastery, hit/mastery or haste/mastery. When in Flex and LFR, set your loot specialization to retribution (with the exception of General Nazgrim (shield) and Malkorok (trinket).

    I prefer to hard-cap expertise, because then I have the guarantee that I will have enough holy power at a certain time. I don't like the idea of being uncertain as to whether or not I am going to be able to hit ShoR when I want to. This is particularly important if you want to get the most out of Eternal Flame, as it too consumes Holy Power when cast (without the T16 4set). The haste will come when you swap out those dodge/parry items; I see a lot of them are from the Timeless Isle BoA items, try getting some more of those, but set the loot specialization to Retribution before using them. You'll see a lot of crit items, but I would personally rather have a crit/haste item than a dodge/parry one.

  16. #96
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    Ok, I understand that my gear is suboptimal for active mitigation with all those passive stats on them. So lets get a bit deeper into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    I am going to be able to hit ShoR when I want to.
    Ok, so exactly what does this mean? Timing my Deathstrike comes naturally to me now, because I've done it so long. But the Bloodshield stays on for far longer than SotR which makes it at least easier for me to prepemtive DS to even out damage intake. I have no such intuition about SotR so now I more or less just try to hit it as often as I can. Any pointers here?

  17. #97
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    He means that if you have hit/expertise cap you know that whenever you use an ability it IS going to hit.

    Do not do not do NOT ever ever ever think of tanking in continuous/over time terms. Tanking is all about discrete math. Damage intake is discrete, you care far more about discrete resource generation (or at the very least short term) than you do long term.

    Hit/Expertise is all about maximizing the small timeframe. So even if you stacked haste and would, over time, have more attacks connect than you would get missed, you shouldn't really care about that. What you DO care about is whether or not your next ability will hit to generate the resources you need to put up your next defensive ability. This is how active mitigation works, and the reason why hit/expertise are important for tanks for the first time ever.

    I don't know much about DK mechanics, I think there's some thing where if you miss it doesn't use the resources for that attack and you can instantly just hit the ability again? Or there was at some point? Idk, that would definitely diminish the value of hit/expertise, but that isn't a thing for warriors/paladins.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  18. #98
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    Right, I get the discrete resource generation thing. I tanked as a DK through all of Cata and in the starting tier of MoP, so that mechanic is very familiar to me. It is exactly the discrete time element of the Paladin active mitigation that I'm trying to come to terms with. Just for the record, Death Strike can't be parried, but it can miss and be dodged. The blood shield has a duration of 10 seconds, renewed each time you stack more of it.

    As such, my main concern as a Blood DK is to keep a suitably sized blood shield to mitigate incoming boss melee damage and when possible take advantage of damage spikes that boost my following heals and shields. As a Paladin, I hit SotR... er... always? Immediately when I can? This is the part I'm struggling with. As SotR doesn't scale with damage intake, there has to be something else to guide me as to when it is optimally used. This is what I'm trying to figure out.

  19. #99
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    When you cap out on HP or more importantly just before the boss does a physical nuke (like Horridon's triple puncture). SotR does scale with boss damage.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  20. #100
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    Yeah, ShoR is not meant to be kept up all the time (or else we'd be overpowered). The basic paladin mitigation is already balanced against other tanks like DK so that ShoR doesn't (and shouldn't) be up all the time. ShoR is used for damage smoothing (removing spikes) and it takes some skill to master that. I find it very hard to stop myself from pressing it everytime I have 3HP, instead I work hard on pooling my HP to 5 (like Teng was saying) and otherwise only use it to reduce large spikes of physical damage.

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