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Thread: Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin

  1. #21
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    ok great!!! I was very worried that I was doing bad things with my gear!! I just hate reforging out of dodge and parry as I am still in the old way of thinking things. I havent done much enchanting or putting gems on my gear as it is still fairly low and will be wasteful since I am getting upgrades pretty much every other day.

    It is good to have someone confirm that what you are doing is on the right track

  2. #22
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    my next question is... I notice that Maxdps.com has reforging going back into avoidance on almost all the gear..... I take it that this information is incorrect.... well except for the case that the above 3 major stats are hard capped. but I have a feeling this wont happen for quite some time..

  3. #23
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    Maths for the Sacred Shield addition, courtesy of TheckHD from maintankadin:

    Quote Originally Posted by theckhd
    The math for haste breakpoints is pretty simple:

    N=number of ticks
    T0=default tick duration
    T=hasted tick duration
    D0=default buff duration
    D=buff duration in presence of spell haste

    T=T0/(1+totalSpellHaste)
    N=bankersRound(D0/T)
    D=N*T

    Note that totalSpellHaste isn't a linear addition. It's
    totalHaste=(1+hasteRating/425/100)*(1+SoI)*(1.05)*(1+bloodlust)
    spellHasteBuff=0.05 (if the buff is active, else 0)
    bloodlust=0.3 (if the buff is active, else 0)

    So for example, let's say you have 4% haste on gear and the Spell Haste buff. Your total spell haste is 1.04*1.05-1=0.092, or 9.2%. Your hasted tick duration is T=6/(1.092)=5.49450 seconds, so you'll get a number of ticks equal to N=bankersRound(30/5.49450)=bankersRound(5.46)=5. No extra tick, so your total buff duration is D=N*T=5*5.49450=27.4725 seconds.

    Bump that up to 6% haste from gear. Now your total spell haste is 11.3%, tick duration is T=6/1.113=5.3908 seconds, and N=bankersRound(30/5.3908)=bankersRound(5.56)=6. Aha, extra tick! New buff duration is D=6*5.3908=32.3448 seconds.

    It should be pretty clear from this that you get a new tick every time the argument of bankersRound() ends in 0.5*; so when 30/T=5.5, 6.5, 7.5, 8.5, etc. If we do a little math, we can see what those spell haste breakpoints are:
    Code:
    N = bankersRound(D0/T) = bankersRound(D0/(T0/(1+totalSpellHaste)) 
      = bankersRound((D0/T0)*1+totalSpellHaste)
      = bankersRound(D0/T0 + D0/T0*totalSpellHaste)
    Now D0/T0 is just 30/6=5. plugging that in:
    Code:
    N = bankersRound(5 + 5*totalSpellHaste)
    So any time 5*totalSpellHaste reaches a value that ends in 0.5. Namely, at 10% (5*0.1=5), 30% (5*0.3=1.5), 50% (5*0.5=2.5), 70% (5*0.7=3.5), and every additional 20%.

    Thus, your haste break points for getting new ticks are 10%, 30%, 50%, 70%, etc.


    * This is only partly true because we're using banker's Rounding, where we always round to the nearest even number if the number to be rounded ends in exactly 0.50. So in theory, if we had 10% haste, we'd be rounding 5.5 up to 6, granting us a new tick. If we're at 30% haste though, we're rounding 6.5 down to 6, which doesn't get us a new tick. However, as soon as we hit 30.001% haste, we have 6.5005, which gets rounded up. I don't know how many decimal places the game stores these values to (probably very many), but it's not likely to matter too much. It only becomes an issue if you land exactly on a given value (ex: exactly at 30*425=12750 rating, without having spell haste buff). So in the absence of the spell haste buff, you get new ticks at:
    4250 rating, 12751 rating, 21250 rating, 29751 rating, etc.

    With the spell haste buff, you're far less likely to land on an exact break point. The break points are:
    4047.619 rating, 12142.857 rating, 20238.095 rating, 28333.333 rating, etc. Since we're generally going to round all of those up to ensure the next tick (i.e. 4048 rating, 12143 rating, 20239 rating, 28334 rating, etc.) we're automatically over the exact 0.50000 threshold. So in practice, we don't need to worry so much about the difference between banker's rounding and regular rounding.

    Feel free to use the content of this message in your discussion. I may turn it into a quickie blog post in the next week or so, it seems like something most people would like to see mathed out.
    Last edited by Fetzie; 11-12-2012 at 05:56 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danathan View Post
    my next question is... I notice that Maxdps.com has reforging going back into avoidance on almost all the gear..... I take it that this information is incorrect.... well except for the case that the above 3 major stats are hard capped. but I have a feeling this wont happen for quite some time..
    Most definitely. While "all avoidance" will make you take the least amount of damage in the long run (we are talking tens of thousands of attacks against you), the hit/exp/haste/mastery setup will make you take the most controllable and smoothest damage. Speaking as somebody who healed sporadically for 3 years, it is infinitely easier and costs much less mana to heal a tank taking more damage, when that damage is predictable and non-spiky than a tank that can take zero damage for 5 seconds and then gets his ass kicked for three seconds

  5. #25
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    For completion's sake it might be worth adding the engineer hand tinker to professions section. 1920str/dodge for 10s every minute, and the 2880 haste for 20s every 2 minutes form herbalism.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    For completion's sake it might be worth adding the engineer hand tinker to professions section. 1920str/dodge for 10s every minute, and the 2880 haste for 20s every 2 minutes form herbalism.
    Done.

  7. #27
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    Good guide, explains things easily and thoroughly.

  8. #28
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  9. #29
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    Ummmm...... is Section 9 completely out of date? Cause it looks to be completely contradictory to the part of Section 7 that talked about dodge/parry.

  10. #30
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    Looking at it, thanks for the heads-up

    edit: how about I swap their position? Then the stats thing would be building up on what was explained about diminishing returns? Section 7 would become Section 9, and vice-versa. I'd still like to have an explanation about what diminishing returns are.

    the DR section is talking about how diminishing returns work, and how they can be exploited to increase your avoidance gain. The stats section then expands upon that knowledge, talking about how that basic principle can be adapted to the changes made. The principle of being able to increase one's total avoidance by swapping from one stat to another is still present. In fact, the DR being how it is, it is even more present than in Cataclysm. The fact that Avoidance is, once again mostly irrelevant, is neither here nor there.
    Last edited by Fetzie; 03-03-2013 at 06:41 AM.

  11. #31
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    Yeah, a full explanation of DR is good. Section 9 explains it in Cata terms though, when they diminished equally, is what caught my eye.

  12. #32
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    If you want a simple explanation of Diminishing Returns, I think it is easier to explain it like that, than to mess around with "actually because of the DR, you need to multiply by [insert long number] due to [insert even longer algebra expression]". It was already a simplified version in Cataclysm that wasn't directly applicable to the actual DR mechanic and I think that any attempt to do otherwise would do nothing other than turn people off.

    In the forward to Steven Hawking's books on Einsteinian Special Relativity, he wrote that his publisher told him that every equation would half his book sales. I agree, and have elected for the simpler approach, even if it does mean being slightly inaccurate (see school science class compared to university level science class).

  13. #33
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    You might look at the wording though. Section 7 specifically says that DR for dodge and parry is the same, which isn't true. It definitely makes the explanation easier, but will probably mislead someone. Maybe water down the verbage from being so absolute in section 7? Maybe start with a "Let's pretend for a moment that dodge and parry diminish at the same rate (they don't anymore, but for sake of example)."

    Just something to take the factual-ness sounding off the old info. Sorry, I am not much of a wordsmither unfortunately.

  14. #34
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    Yeah, I'll do that.

    Changed the wording to:

    Let us assume that the two ratings diminish at the same rate, and that 1 dodge rating is 1% dodge and that the next rating point grants 0.01% dodge less each time. While not representative of the current mechanics, this makes it rather easier to understand. Thus, avoidance diminishing returns works a bit like this:

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    Diminishing Returns on avoidance stats were introduced in Wrath of the Lich King to stop tanks reaching 100% avoidance against bosses (druids and rogues could literally not be hit by a boss). Both parry and dodge ratings diminish at the same rate.
    That's the one that caught my eye the other night! (I was pretty tired at the time, thought process was pretty vague)

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregasaurous View Post
    That's the one that caught my eye the other night! (I was pretty tired at the time, thought process was pretty vague)
    I thought I had deleted that sentence yesterday. Anyway, it has gone now.

  17. #37
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    Hey guys,

    i am new here..., but I wanted to know, where I can find a new spreadsheet.
    I only have one from 5.1. or is it still usable?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxi View Post
    Hey guys,

    i am new here..., but I wanted to know, where I can find a new spreadsheet.
    I only have one from 5.1. or is it still usable?
    You're gonna have to be a bit more detailed in what kind of spreadsheet you're exactly looking for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

  19. #39
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    Yeah, especially as I haven't published a spreadsheet for 5.1 (or MoP in general)

  20. #40
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    You probably already keep up with this stuff, but just incase:
    http://sacredduty.net/2013/03/22/is-nothing-sacred/

    a good read.

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