The Weekly Marmot - What Is Fun?

[Lore]

[BLSTMASTER]

Odd time to post...

SICK INTRO

For MoP, I think they have a bit over 300 dailies, and 40 (50?) are available each day. so you'll get a bit different quest each day. (but will still see some same quests).

From what i've seen, there are a lot of different types of dailies, although there still are a ton of the old 'kill this get that ' dailies. The mobs seem to have very varying abilities though.(Think of firelands dailies, the final quest where you fight 1 of 6 lieutenants)
For example, there's one where its actually like you're pvp'ing a mage :P

[doom1992]

Lore is one of these players that trolls raid general chat, and trade chat with the 'what is love' spam :P.

[Percier]

The most fun i had with questing, was with the rogue legendary quests. They were really good and fun to do. Maybe class specific dailies would be an option? With each alt you would get different quests.

[Ayrybyn]

Another thing that's not fun to do in WoW are the professions, imo they bog the gameplay down and cost way too much in mats for items that aren't really worth it. Also, I feel that Blizz needs to take a page out of STO's book as far as quests go, in WoW I feel like another generic hero doing the same things that every other hero is doing. However in STO they have what are called Episodes, which are kind of like chain quests, and they completely immerse you into the star trek lore and make you feel like your actions are actually effecting the star trek universe. That's something that I feel that Blizz hasn't quite captured yet and should be something they do in the future. STO also has exploration dailies that are completely random, you could find yourself doing a space mission one minute or a ground based mission the next. Blizz could do something similar, a daily where you could be flying on your mount; jousting with another enemy or doing a bombing run, or it could be a ground based daily and have it completely random as to which you'll be doing. Yes I know they've done something similar, I'm just saying that they could do more and make it more varied. WoW's a great game and I enjoy playing it and the friends that I've made on it and I feel that it needs just a few tweaks to make it better.

[Vong]

Fun is my Chinese neighbours middle name........

[Knighterrant81]

I think you hit the nail on the head, Lore, when you said that MMOs are about the rewards you get at the end. The rewards are really what's going to determine if you participate in the content. For instance:

I hate dailies. I will only do them if I feel like I have to (that is to say, I feel like the rewards are worth the effort, or are even so rewarding that they become required for raid progression).

I enjoyed SSO dailies. They were easy to do and centrally located. The rewards were great. I feel like the LFD tool has taken the place of this kind of play though - highly rewarding content you do daily. Not too grindy, great rewards, but pretty much obsolete once we had LFD.

TOC dailies - this was probably where they tried the hardest to get us to do a minigame. That had mixed results. I liked jousting, but I know a lot of others didn't. I also really liked the rewards. Slightly tough grind, but great rewards.

WG vs TB - I liked WG dailies, they were *rewarding*. TB I still haven't gotten anything from, because there just wasn't much I wanted (tanking trink, I never did get it). TB battles were also TERRIBLE (WG was much better) and it also *looked* terrible compared to WG. TB just didn't have enough reward.

Molten Front - I didn't care about the rewards, and they took way too long. I think they thought the lore would carry water for these, and it really didn't. Too much grind AND too little reward.

Sons of Hodir - I liked these because you could do them while leveling - kill two birds with one stone, WITHOUT the tabard system that basically removed rep grinds completely. Great for making that other grind - leveling - more bearable, but not so much fun at the cap.

The long and the short of it: WOW really needs to get players out of the capital cities and get them to do content that isn't all about queuing. Grinds done well can be a really great way to get us out in the world. In order for that to happen, rewards from dailies have to be competitive with rewards you get from other content like queuing for LFR or LFD or BGs. Here's hoping they hit the sweet spot. I'm actually glad they have some almost-required items on the rep vendors and have removed tabarding.

[Toypop]

How can we make grinding dailies more fun?

I'd start by asking myself why I don't like running daily quests. What are my experiences of doing daily quests in the past?

When I think about it, I don't necessarily have a beef with the quests themselves.

What I hate with a passion is the negative impact that other players have on the experience. Racing around competing with everyone (people refuse to group or there are multiple groups) to tag quest mobs, camping spawn points, ninja looting collectable items (like the fish or beer) whilst I am fighting off a few mobs that jumped me. Having to fly around doing sweet FA for 10 minutes waiting for quest mobs or items to respawn. Morons on a PVE server kitted out with PVP gear/talents tagging themselves for PVP and jumping around in amongst the quest mobs hoping a PVE geared/spec'd toon will accidentally tag them - why don't they bugger off and play Eve with like minded individuals.

ETC ETC ETC.

I could do the same daily quests in GW2 and enjoy them. Sure the quests in previous expansions lacked variety. I mean some zones (MF, Therazane etc) gave you slightly different quests each day but the pool was a bit too small.

Removing the negative impact of other players and increasing the pool will do me fine.

[jjuls]

For me, I hate dungeons. They give me high blood pressure. Everybody else is way too young and fast. It's not too nerve-wracking when I go with my guild, but we don't do that too much. If you see me in a dungeon, you can bet I need something out of that dungeon that I can't get anywhere else. I've dragged myself through dungeons many many times for an orb or a quest or badges or one of the bazillion things that only dropped in dungeons ("ooo you don't have the GOOD mage water"). That's why I'm happy they're giving valor points for dailies. To me, dungeons are the same way dailies are for other people. I hate hate hate them. The only dungeons I like are old ones that I solo. As far as I'm concerned, pretty much the only really fun things were the old vanilla quests, but since I can't have that I'll say dailies are fun. Not only are rep tabards ridonkulous from an RP point of view (the Wildhammer Clan I'm sure really cares if I killed something in Stonecore), but they are just one more way of making it easier for the dungeonophiles over the dungeonophobes.

[Nagassh]

While I can understand not wanting grinding present in the pursuit of character power, which is often mandatory, I can't help but like it in places. I can't imagine not having 0.1% drop rate vanity items that you can grind up, and I kinda like them being out there. Should every pet be a hyacinth macaw? Hell no, but as you've said - variety is king, sometimes variety consists of sitting down and killing a few thousand pirates.

I can perfectly understand people disagreeing - it's a mindset that's probably bred from someone that loves MMOs enough to like the parts that would sound horrendous to anyone who didn't play an MMO, but eh - I like grinds to be there, though can understand not wanting it to be part of the mandatory path to character progression.

[Banzhe]

I can perfectly understand people disagreeing - it's a mindset that's probably bred from someone that loves MMOs enough to like the parts that would sound horrendous to anyone who didn't play an MMO, but eh - I like grinds to be there, though can understand not wanting it to be part of the mandatory path to character progression.

You will never see grindy parts left out of character progression because it would mean the rewards after X grind = character cosmetics, pet or title.

Tbh I'm in the totally opposite tench of blizzard and now you it seems Lore, grinds are a great way to ensure the pool of players isn't 100% lazy chimps!
(putting it bluntly as that's the exp I'm getting more n' more of from strangers that can barely control their own character)

The whole concept they've been building for 2 years now with "everyone is a winner" reaks to high heaven, even with their latest "challenge-mode" dungeons they've already opened up the possibility of nerfing them if a sufficient number won't complete them for mounts, titles etc. (Read GC's response on his last twitter)

Honestly I miss the days where content was created and it was left as released for players to either succeed or flunk using their own toolbox and brains as opposed to everything being dished out for everyone, what this game sorely needs is goals for players to strive for, not some 5-20min lunch break feature my kittens can complete walking across my keyboard.

[Leucifer]

Watching this and reading the replies sparked a memory......

Back in TBC, it often cost a LOT of honor to get even a single PvP item. Strangely though, it didn't bother me much. Why? My smattering of blues and greens were competitive. Yes, the PvP epics I gathered were an improvement, but they weren't gamebreaking. I could still have fun in PvP and be "relevant", even without the shiniest of the shiny. I could run Kara and still be in the mix and having fun with better-geared people. Running SSO, it had meaningful rewards. Again though, the gear was an improvement, and it was cool, but it WAS secondary to having fun.

I really honestly think a huge part of the problem is the gear-performance-inclusion feedback loop that we see in WoW. People want to do cool shit, but you frequently can't get even a sniff at it unless you can convince someone you're qualified. Often, gear is the qualifier. Either due to it being a performance advantage, or sign of competency. And with ever-increasing gear performance leaps, it makes the player seek these items as a means to an end...... inclusion.

Honestly, there have been few gear pieces that I've truly wanted for their aesthetics. Most of the time, people seem to be gunning for gear for the performance improvement.... because a gear-driven performance improvement CAN make up for lack of good gameplay.

I really don't know how to put it, but over the years, I've watched this odd "polarization" occur in WoW. Gear and mudflation are part of it, and raiding also. It has a lot to do with the "loss" of "community" that people perceive..... and I really believe they are all intertwined. I really don't know how to verbalize it, but it is a bit reminescent of the arms race of the cold war. We're racing each other to be stronger than the next guy, but in doing this, we're accelerating towards "doom".

[Thebis]

What is fun, baby don't hurt don't hurt me no more.

[Aggathon]

BEST INTRO YET.

[progpicjapu]

He looks like sideshow bob in the intro