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Thread: Pally Tanking, how is it affected now we have MoP patch?

  1. #21
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    May 2009
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    Prot warriors, Bears DKs and Paladins . My threat on the pull feels a lot more shakey than it did pre-patch even though i'm now almost guanranteed to land my attacks.

  2. #22
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    I was talking to the guy above Teng's post. He posted about the same time as me.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    I like the previous lost but given what I know (which is somewhat limited) about the other tanks, it just seems that our active mitigation is both less active and less mitigation.

    Also, I've noticed a reduction in threat already. If i am timing shotr, that's going to have some threat implications too.

    I apologize if this is coming off sounding like I thinks we are in some kind of dire position, that's not what I am thinking. Just trying to identify what our weaknesses are so i know what skill is going to have to compensate for.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
    Maybe you should just invest more time in adjustment to the new style. I mean, in this patch tankadins get almost everything we wanted, like mobility, survivability, a movable consecration, etc., so why keep complaining?

    I tanked heroic DS last night on my pally, with a bear co-tank, and actually I'm taking less damage than before. Guess that has something to do with the DS mechanism of ignoring block on many boss encounters. But still, the active mitigation style of play enables one to control the mitigation to deal with boss skills, which means that a good tank will have better performance while a face-roller will get kicked in the ass. The bear, who is not a bad player, still had a lot of problem surviving on Blackhorn, due to less practice of the new mechanism (I played through LFR before guild raiding, and got good training in the process.).

    TL;DR: practice more before complaining, we are actually much stronger than before.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Spent a considerable amount of time tanking 5 mans, and ran a few LFR bosses. Our guild's 10 man is this Wednesday...

    I think most of my concerns on early survivability have been put to rest. I started casting sacred shield on cooldown. I have to say my Pally tank feels so OP atm. During the Manaroth fight in Well of Eternity, The healer and all DPS died to that green stuff (Fel Firestorm) and I was left to fight Manaroth by myself. I must of tanked Manaroth and about 20 to 30 of those warlock pets with zero support for 3 minutes and I never dropped below 50%. Eventually the DPS and healer made their way back in and we got the kill...

    Also, during the Morchock fight in LFR, my co-tank (Bear) kept dying to stomps. The last 10 % of the fight it was 3 DPS and I, no healers and we got the kill. Phenomenal.

    Side note, I played my DK and Guradian tank this weekend as well. DK is pretty strong as well. He felt stronger than before the patch. The druid not as strong as the DK and Pally. Could just be a learning curve thing, but he was actually pretty boring to be honest. AOE threat was sort of an issue with the bear, and the savage defense mechanic didn't have the same feel that SOtR and Deathstrike have...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by javsaddiction View Post
    DK is pretty strong as well. He felt stronger than before the patch.
    Was that due to the change in vengenance or what, do you think? I am struggling to find anything substantial that's changed for blood DKs, although I only play my alt one infrequently. Every other tank has undergone an overall but blood dks seem pretty much the same.

  6. #26
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    Blizz have already said Blood DKs in the current iteration are requiring the least helaing of the live tanking classes, and that there is probably going to be a numbers tweak to bring them in line with pally

  7. #27
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    Feb 2011
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    There's a couple of things I noticed on my dk last night while running another lfr...

    1. More Deathstrikes & Bloodshields... Maybe it's due to taking Runic Corruption over blood tap, but I'm getting way more deathstrikes than I'm used to.
    2. Blood buff to stamina - Raid buffed last night I was close to 260K health... Not sure how that works exactly but by my pally gets around 240k and he's better geared than the dk and has a crap-ton of epic stam gems, while the dk sports mostly mastery gems...
    3. DPS on the DK is through the roof. Last night's LFR run I came in 3rd on the dps charts with 58k dps on madness (340K healthpool with the encounter buff as well).

    Even with all that, I still enjoy my paladin more so than my dk. I like the utility the paladin brings to a group....

  8. #28
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    Sep 2012
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    I think we're in a good spot right now. Our threat feels a little funny, but I think pulling with AS and Glyph of Consecrate we'll be okay to stay ahead of mages and hunters on the pull.

    As for survival, we've still got a plethora of cooldowns, which is pretty nice, on the pull start out with a wimpy Sacred Shield, and get SotR up as quickly as possible (DivPurp is good here, RNG might be nice to you). Keep sacred shield up at all times, with vengence it's actually pretty nice, and does it's own thing. You'll probably want holy avenger for a boss like Hagara (or any flayer) just to have extra long SotR streaks.

    Try to time SotR with the SS's down time (it's difficult, but possible). Then it's just a matter of keeping threat from your bursty folks.

  9. #29
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    Aug 2012
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    I have now tanked DS on my Pally with new patch and i have set hit and expertise to 7.5%. I used seal of insight and I didnt need as much healing as the DK and i never lost threat. I am loving the changes now I am acustomed to them.

  10. #30
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    I'm hard capping expertise on all my tanks (warrior, paladin & DK) along with hit, of course. Am I doing it wrong? Seems to me to be the only sensible thing to do to really maximise rage/HoPo? I just noticed the DK tooltip for DS - can't be parried. Seems overpowered to me?

  11. #31
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    I'm using 7.5/7.5, this leaves leaves me with plenty of mastery to boost ShoR. I'm not bothering with balancing parry and dodge right now, doesn't really seem worth it with the gear reset in just over a fortnight, especially as I am not actively raiding anything until then anyway.

  12. #32
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    Yes and No, Unlike DKs Bears/Warriors/Pallies don't need hit or expertise at all to put up Savage Defense/Shield Block/Shield of the Righteous, we need them to accumulate our rescource so we can use those abilities, but we don't need for our defensive buffs to connect for them to function. DKs need DS to connect. as to resource generation you've got to think what is the resource DKs need to generate their defensive buff; FU pairs. And how do they generate FU pairs, Passively from haste or actively form RS via their level 75 talent which can be parried.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorfurd View Post
    I'm hard capping expertise on all my tanks (warrior, paladin & DK) along with hit, of course. Am I doing it wrong? Seems to me to be the only sensible thing to do to really maximise rage/HoPo?
    From what I understand from Tengenstein's work, mastery is a better stat for rage per second than hit or expertise. If so, the argument for capping hit/expertise is weaker for them than for palas. I guess capping may improve the reliability of rage generation, but intuitively, I can't see that trumping the defensive benefits of mastery.

    EDIT: The above seems to be no longer true with the latest version of the Tengenstein's Excel file: taking the default values, shifting 100 rating from mastery to hit or exp does increase rage per second.
    Last edited by theodisius; 09-11-2012 at 12:35 AM.

  14. #34
    The prevailing attitude here seems to be a solo attitude. Why? We play MMOs for group play, and group interactions should be important. I like the changes. They make play more active; there are new abilities from other classes that make things even more interesting, like druid's "2nd barkskin", usable on target instead of caster. With a one-minute barkskin cooldown, I exclusively save ironbark for tank damage spikes. Coordination is more important now, and that makes this game more exciting, like team sports. Assists are important.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Yes and No, Unlike DKs Bears/Warriors/Pallies don't need hit or expertise at all to put up Savage Defense/Shield Block/Shield of the Righteous, we need them to accumulate our rescource so we can use those abilities, but we don't need for our defensive buffs to connect for them to function. DKs need DS to connect. as to resource generation you've got to think what is the resource DKs need to generate their defensive buff; FU pairs. And how do they generate FU pairs, Passively from haste or actively form RS via their level 75 talent which can be parried.
    Did they undo the change so that DS heals even on a miss/dodge/parry? If not, then DKs seem to be in the exact same boat in a sense. The only difference is that runes regen regardless of miss/dodge/parry. The benefit of hit/exp to a DK is getting runic corruption, etc from that tier to proc more runes with rune strike. It still amounts to increased resource generation from hit/exp.

  16. #36
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    They don't get the heal off a Miss, They do get the heal on a Dodge, DS cannot be parried
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  17. #37
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    Nov 2008
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    That seems a pretty compelling argument for blood DKs prioritising hit cap, do you agree? Has anyone done the maths? (Where does one go for maths on blood DKs?)

    With paladins, it seems up in the air, but a case can be made for getting 7.5% hit and expertise for more controllability of damage.

    What I am getting from here and from incbear is that mastery and crit trump hit and expertise for warriors and bears respectively.

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