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Thread: Pally Tanking, how is it affected now we have MoP patch?

  1. #1
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    Pally Tanking, how is it affected now we have MoP patch?

    I have heard that we will no longer be able to fully cap mitigation (except when trinkets proc). What is the % for caping, has it changed from 102.5%? The agro system is changing as well and I am eager to know what I need damage mitigation, hit and expertise at for MoP. And does anyone know what is the best talent alocation is?

  2. #2
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    You can no longer cap CTC.

    The reforging I will be doing will be hit cap (7.5%), expertise soft-cap (7.5%), then mastery.

  3. #3
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    Stacking stam with trinkets, etc for bosses and a mastery set for trash? My understanding is the two roll system makes block on bosses too unreliable. With many block roll chances on trash, mastery performs better. I admittedly don't have enough research into it at the moment, but I know the people I trust for these answers are here. =)

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    1) It's just as reliable as it was before in pre-CTC, the only difference is that now, compared to the old system, you just allow only (100% - avoidance) of your block chance to actually work.
    2) you may block far more on trash, but you also get more swings in. The only relevance is that on trash, 4 swings in a row don't mean potential danger/wipes.
    3) Hit & Expertise provide all tanks with the resource they need for their defensive ability. This resource gain (and the resulting buff uptime) provides far more control over your survival than other stats.

    For more info, see Fetzie's signature link
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
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  5. #5
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    Pally still has a max 6 sec out of 9 on the uptime though, right? So 1/3 of the time, we are subject to dodge/parry rng and cds?

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    Perhaps, but you are subject to RNG the rest of the time as well, only more hit/exp and avoidance/mastery reduces the damage you take overall, making it less stressy for your healers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
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  7. #7
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    Warning! All of this may be my misunderstanding. I am trying to relay the way I have undestood my research to clear up anything I may be wrong about.

    So, we get the 30% damage reduction buff from ShotR that lasts six seconds which simulates block cap. Assuming we have enough hit/exp to maximize HP generation, then we have a minimum of 9 seconds to generate 3 HP. Once we have that 3 HP, we have to decide if we want to ShotR to apply the damage reduction again or WoG to heal up a little. During any low damage periods we may bank the extra 1 or 2 HP for a little better coverage at a higher damage time.

    Any idea if during that 3 seconds gap (or longer if we WoG) we are getting our **** pushed in? It seems that is what I was hearing about the beta. Not sure how that will relate in DS which wasn't designed around the way the new systems work.

    I am guessing since Fetzie and Airowird have both said mastery still that we do not need to go stam for "worst case" which must mean boss damage is not necessarily life threatening during those gaps? As I understand it, this is likely to make Pally the highest damage intake tank now that the 5.0 systems are in, correct? Any suggestions about those gaps beyond cd/trinket usage as needed?

    Edit:
    Honestly, this is almost sounding like prot pallies will almost need to script our encounters. e.g. Standard rotation until 2:15 and bank HP while boss summons adds. WoG and quick HP for ShotR + cd while dps burns adds. etc. etc. Not that we don't do a fair share of that now but before I was largely "scripting" my cds. Now it seems I will want to script my rotation to match damage phases of the fight.
    Last edited by sifuedition; 08-29-2012 at 02:29 PM.

  8. #8
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    thank you for your replies. The trinks I am talking about are for dodge and mastery trinks from H DS. 88 dodge times 10 and 3200 mastery. Fetzie, I have heard that with trikets procing you can cap CTC but I am not sure what that cap is. I am glad for the info about hit and expertiseat 7.5 %. That will make allocation a little easier.

  9. #9
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    The cap was 102.4% dodge+block+parry+Miss, however patch 5.0.4 but block on a two roll system so now you need either 102.4 % block, or 102.4 Doge+parry+Miss, Neither of which is possible in present gear, capping out isn't a concern in regards to either of those trinkets.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    ..., however patch 5.0.4 but block on a two roll system and added more level difference so now you need either 104.5 % Block, or 113.5% Dodge+Parry+Miss, neither of which is possible in present gear, capping out isn't a concern in regards to either of those trinkets.
    Fixt
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

  11. #11
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    So I've spent the last two nights getting used to the 5.0.4 changes to my prot paladin. For the most part, I'm enjoying the changes. The rotation has grown on me, SOTR matters, Word of Glory is phenomenal, Consecration is flipping awesome. From that standpoint, my Paladin feels stronger and more interesting than before.

    I do have one concern though. I'm eating some huge damage spikes at the start of every boss fight. I'm not talking raid bosses either. Last night while in End Time, Murozond killed my pally in the first 5 seconds of the fight. Within the first few seconds of the Echo of Baine fight I was under 50%. Once I get "situated" and get a couple of SOTR in, damage seems to stabalize, but it almost feels like I should be hitting a damage reduction cooldown at the start of each fight just to get my buffs and debuffs in place. Anyone else notice this going on?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...vsiam/advanced

  12. #12
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    Sounds like a damn good time for a glyphed Divine Protection.I don't think there's anything wrong with buying your healers and yourself time to wind up with an early minor CD.

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    That's one of the things I've always liked about the old way Shield Block worked. Pop it at the start because:
    A) Double Shield slam dmg
    B) Damage reduction when the most mobs and least debuffs are up

    Either answer is right =)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    Pally still has a max 6 sec out of 9 on the uptime though, right? So 1/3 of the time, we are subject to dodge/parry rng and cds?
    Uptime is 3 seconds, not 6. The only time we can really get full uptime is if you talent the cooldown ability that lets HP generators generate 3 HP for a short period (this is a really powerful cooldown if you think about the implications of full ShoR coverage).

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    Yeah, I noticed this the last two nights on the dummies. Was setting up a power aura for it and realized how hard it was to catch the buff name. Re-read the tooltips and saw the 3 second duration. I may be mis-remembering but I thought it was 6 seconds when they first put this mechanic into beta and I hadn't heard the change after that. Of course, I also thought it was 30% (maybe that was base before mastery?). Mine currently shows 52% after reforging out of some parry and mastery for hit/exp caps.

    I'm still not feeling good about damage reduction. I guess I picked up an extra cd since sacred shield doesn't seem to share a lockout with anything else but I still feel like I am just standing there getting hit most of the time. I'm practicing on the dummy to try to focus on uptime for the ShotR buff. I've also set up a WAKE UP DUMMY power aura for weakened blows. Note to self: find that sound bite to play when the aura activates

    I guess Mists will be designed around us being this way but it feels a little lackluster that optimal play protects me 1/3 of the time (barring lucky AS procs). As far as "active mitigation" goes, it doesn't feel like I'm ever mitigating.

  16. #16
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    Yeah, ShoR is base 30% + increases from mastery (remember you also get some mastery by default, regardless of gear).

    I think the thing to consider is that all this time paladins have strived for full combat table coverage (at least since BC when it was first possible for us). That's something that is hard to just forget, but I think the direction for tanking in general (not just paladins) is that your base defenses aside from ShoR (or class equivalents) is what you are balanced around for the average case and that you are expected to manage your active mitigation cooldown (ShoR in our case) to negate the trouble spots. The devs don't want us just blindly hitting ShoR every time it is up, but to play so that ShoR provides a buffer against the trouble spots (like impales on MoDW). There's a level of skill in knowing when exactly to hit ShoR on many fights. Hitting it every time it is up will cover the lower end of the spectrum, but trying to learn how to time ShoR to maximize it's damage reduction potential is where we should be looking instead.

    So far my experiences have been pretty positive with my paladin. I don't feel any weaker than I was (actually I seem to take less damage than before, though that is just feeling...not hard numbers). I still need to practice against some bigger hitters. Timing ShoR is still taking some practice for me.

    I like Sacred Shield and make a conscious effort to keep it up. I also like Unbreakable Spirit as it has helped me get in some extra Divine Protections in (I like to start fights with DP up).

  17. #17
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    I like the previous lost but given what I know (which is somewhat limited) about the other tanks, it just seems that our active mitigation is both less active and less mitigation.

    Also, I've noticed a reduction in threat already. If i am timing shotr, that's going to have some threat implications too.

    I apologize if this is coming off sounding like I thinks we are in some kind of dire position, that's not what I am thinking. Just trying to identify what our weaknesses are so i know what skill is going to have to compensate for.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  18. #18
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    I think all tanks are noticing the threat decrease, Vengeance does seem to take longer to stack now, neither me nor my co-tank could hold aggro on morchock on the pull, and the 5 amns with my guild generally seem to indicate that if DPS go balls to the wall on the pull they will get aggro.

    I'm fine with that. Asshole DPS deserve to die.

  19. #19
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    Hmm...your threat should be ok right now (or are you talking about at 90?). My damage/threat have actually increased a lot. What rotation are you using?

    As a point of clarification, I am not meaning that you should hold onto ShoR until a big hit comes only, but something more like:

    Normal Damage Phase: Use ShoR when you have 4 HP each time (Just a suggestion. I like having an extra HP available if possible).
    Big hit coming in 5 secs: Hold off on ShoR till right before the big hit. Build more HP in the meantime.

    So you will still be using ShoR a lot, just try to keep an extra HP or two available incase you need to reduce a big hit coming in and work on knowing when to start timing your ShoR versus when to just hit it to help keep your normal damage down. A lot of people will just hit it every 3 HP and never think twice, but they will end up taking more damage when it matters.

    That make sense?

  20. #20
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    I think Teng is talking about Prot Warriors, who do seem to be ... less OP than Prot Paladins atm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

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