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Thread: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

  1. #461
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    This is right, but the chart is wrong

    I ran it off of the old 5% miss 2.4% supression but what do you know, I should just stay away from therycrafting for the week. No more miss chance apparently, and the supression is actually 4.5% (1.5% per level) for each individual type of avoidance, or 9% total. Or so the most reputable source I know indicates.

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33105

    Last edited by Frozen Gnome; 06-23-2013 at 05:55 PM.

  2. #462
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    7500-8000 rating for 1% damage reduction isn't exactly setting the world on fire (most strength tanks are running around with 20-25% parry).

  3. #463
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    600 rating is 1% crit and the rating equivalence in avoidance is 0.08% increase in damage reduction...

    Ripostes coverts avoidance% into 0.5% Crit even before diminishing returns we'd need 1770 rating for 1% crit so 600 rating in avoidance would also be 0.34% crit via riposte at best.

    I'm really starting to think their will be an achievable point at which crit is worth taking over avoidance.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 06-23-2013 at 08:06 AM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  4. #464
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    Frozen Gnome,

    I believe your graph is off.
    It's suggesting that I'd need ~10k rating to gain 1% damage reduction - where the reality is that I only need 1045 rating to gain 1% avoidance.

    And keep in mind that that 1% avoidance is more than 1% damage reduction.

    ie if I have 30% avoidance and I gain 1% avoidance that is a ~1.43% damage reduction.

    I'd only need 0.7% avoidance to get 1% damage reduction.
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

  5. #465
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    You are right, I know why. Seriously, I shouldn't do math or anything like it on 0 sleep. If antything this is somewhat comforting as right now it is showing increasing returns on avoidance rating. I don't trust it anymore, as drunken spreadsheet is even less reliable than no sleep.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airowird View Post
    Effective Crit chance with Riposte will be just over 20% for most tanks. This includes the level difference reduction when attacking bosses.
    Tested riposte on the PTR today, its not actual avoidance % it's avoidance rating, making Riposte even less special, given my setup on live this meant i only got 5-6% crit.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  7. #467
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    That's ..... wow
    So a) ~4% less base than predicted
    b) I guess it scales a wee bit better, which does kinda of help with the fact that besides mastery every stat is pretty suck for protection warriors.

    Oh, and I really wish they just found a way to make us scale with Haste Rating, making it an all-round tank stat for Strength tanks (and crit being better for Agility tanks)


    Edit: I wonder, if you have Run of Re-Origiation, if you would get some nice Mastery buff from that crit rating :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Tested riposte on the PTR today, its not actual avoidance % it's avoidance rating, making Riposte even less special, given my setup on live this meant i only got 5-6% crit.
    So that means that you're not getting crit from strength-based parry rating, I assume?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
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  9. #469
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    Well I'm not really sure it will scale better as we might not have more parry as we gain gear, but we will certinaly get more strength.

    Edit: exactly fetzie
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 06-24-2013 at 02:38 PM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  10. #470
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    I'm sort of okay with crit being a good stat b/c that could mean fury gear and prot gear would be the same gear, just like haste is good for ret and prot pallies.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
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  11. #471
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    Yeah i'd just prefer if Riposte scaled from Strength based parry.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  12. #472
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    I don't get why they can't just make it flat from your character sheet % values. Kinda lame this way.
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  13. #473
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    BnT - Thunderclap Damage

    Hm, I wouldnīt call the BnT buff a massive buff to AoE.

    To my understanding thatīs really just the damage of the TC itself, not to the DW it appiles. TCs own damage is not that big that a 50% buff could have that much of an impact, is it?

    Still a welcome buff, since AoE threat is IMO the warriorīs greatest weakness. Along with the other buffs this should help to close the gap in tank damage.

    And while I donīt think that single target damage is too much of an issue, warrior AoE threat while tankling with a monk or DK is pure pain. I told my RL that I refuse to tank trash, because our DK in full dps gear will leave me with one or two mobs even with intervene on him and dps trinkets.

    Weīll see how much improvement in the AoE threat department that will actually bring.

    AoE vs DDs is a nonissue, not my point

  14. #474
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    My TC hits on our Horridon last night are about twice the damage or slightly more than thatof a DW tick, and my co-tanks TC hits on Tortos' bats average the same 1 TC hit = 2+ DW Ticks, and on that fight where he is continually AoEing his TC is his number one source of damage (22.5%) with Deep Wounds second (16.4%) so i figure about a 10% DPS increase whislt AoEing. Thunderclap is still our Main AoE and using it on CD is still a mainstay of our AoE rotation. On large enough packs you can pretty relaiable get into an [SS>Rev>TC>Rev] which is both fairly high AoE and still sufficient RPS

    I haven't found DK AoE threat much of an issue; the few times i've tanked with a decent DK it's boiled down to who got the aoe off first, and thus who got vengeance. Monks on the other hand are ridiculous. I still think GoHR and GoHtL should be baseline
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akolon View Post
    TCs own damage is not that big that a 50% buff could have that much of an impact, is it?
    It may mean that at certain vengeance levels that TClap passes devastate in terms of single target dps. Likely only used on the 4th GCD before a SS.
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

  16. #476
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    Even on the 4th GCD you still lose an average 1.5 Rage (+ 10 Rage * crit chance in the upcoming patch), which in terms of survival is still better.

    But atleast you won't lose DPS refreshing Weakened Blows
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
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  17. #477
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    TBH I think the reason for this is partially the reverse of whats Booi is stating, Devastate is one of our few abilities that scale of MHdps and so scales very well with vengenace AND gear so with high ilvl weapon tab devastating > TC could become a thing.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  18. #478
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    meh, healer output scales far faster than tank weapon dps, so it could be fixed with AP scaling anyway, which is either basicly what this is, or it's an AoE threat buff, or compensation for losing the chance at an SnB proc (like how paladins get HoPo on both CS & HotR). Pick one, really, I'll take the buff regardless of the reasoning
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
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  19. #479
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    Oh i agree Airo, just that Devastate scaling has always been something that they seem to forget about and then later bites us in the ass as it did in ToC and pretty much all of cata
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  20. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Oh i agree Airo, just that Devastate scaling has always been something that they seem to forget about and then later bites us in the ass as it did in ToC and pretty much all of cata
    At least the dps difference between weapon speeds has been more or less resolved. Using the 2.4 speed weapon only ends up being a 0.3% dps loss compared to a 2.6.
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

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