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Thread: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

  1. #781
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    Don't see how readiness is going to work out for tanks.

    It reduces the cooldown of major abilities (shield wall, last stand, ardent defender etc) but we don't NEED that. We don't need Shield Wall off cooldown 30 seconds earlier, because more often than not the boss decides when we use our cooldowns. And boss ability timers can't be tuned assuming a certain level of Readiness, because then it becomes our best stat, until we reach a certain point at which it becomes useless (and you can't tank that boss without that level of Readiness).

    Remind you of anything?

    For Paladins, I'm pretty sure the stat priority will be Haste > Mastery > Armor >>>> Crit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multistrike >>>>>>>>> Readiness.

  2. #782
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    surely you don't mean def rating? duhn duhn DAHHHHHHH!

    I don't get readiness either, especially as it has little offensive value for warrior tanks who no longer have any offensive CDs making it our only purely defenisve secondary stat and a pretty. unless fights are tuned so we are popping CDs on CD to survive i can't see it being awesome. maybe DKs will like it for the increase in Bone shield up time, but i don't think anyone else has a similar mechanic any more.

    I'm not so confident of warrior stat, but it will probably be Mastery/Crit > Armor/Haste >>>> multistrike > readiness
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  3. #783
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    Well, let's take what they've said about healing changes into effect. Everyone is going to have significantly higher HP in comparison to encounter damage. The challenge will be keeping up with the damage while keeping up with mana, alternating between throuput/output. If I recall correctly the idea is that very rarely will the healers get the whole raid topped off without ooming themselves completely. Perhaps blizzard will take this to tanking, and kinda eliminate the "Tank Killing Laser of Doom!" idea and just kinda go with: Hey, bosses hit kinda hard, rotate CD's or meet with certain demise!
    Really, I don't know a lot about hunters and the only good advice I can give is: TURN PET TAUNT OFF! ~Aggathon

  4. #784
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    If you need to rotate cooldowns to survive, that will be going against every part of their current design philosophy. The whole idea is that people can hover around 40-70% life and not be afraid of dying. That is totally incompatible with "hit the tank so hard that he has to use a cooldown rotation to survive".

    As it stands right now, Readiness is a stat for dps. It might end up having a certain "soft cap" for tanks (a big hit comes every 90 seconds on one fight and every 150 seconds on another) but that doesn't make the stat "good". It makes it as compulsory as Defence Skill was before WotLK (except that the cap changes on a fight to fight basis - and we have no reforging so that means you'd want every piece of readiness gear that drops to be able to mix and match the stats to hit a certain cap and no further) and Blizzard wants to move away from that kind of situation.

    Of course, they want to move away from ability bloat, and have decided that Paladins need to stance-dance with one-GCD seals to swap between single-target and multi-target tanking, so who knows what the fuck they are actually thinking (apparently it is OK because you can "slip the seal swap in to an open GCD" (verbatim, Celestalon via Twitter).

  5. #785
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    I don't see how that's removing button Bloat, In 5.0 a prot pally would need 3 buttons, 1 to activate, SoI, 1 for CS, and 1 for HotR. In 6.0 you're gonna need 1 for SoT, 1 for SoR, and 1 for CS+HotR, which is 3 buttons. not sure how this removes button bloat, but it is adding complexity to what is already one of, if not the most complex tanking rotations.

    I have my stances keybound as a prot war because occasionally I do stance dance (mainly to help less geared tanks maintain threat, same keybind toggles RF), I have never keybound seals. Unless they add Seals as proper stances/forms so i can create a macro toggle I'm going to have to find a bind for 2 new abilities. In my mind if they aren't off the GCD (with a very short CD, 1-3s or so), they need to do something like activating SoR causes you to explode in a Holy Nova , and SoT causes you Laser you current target for an appreciable amount of damage.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  6. #786
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    I don't see how that's removing button Bloat,
    Exactly my point.

    And this is also the reason we lost Avenging Wrath

  7. #787
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    Arent all us tanks losing our offensive cds?
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Arent all us tanks losing our offensive cds?
    Don't care about the offensive CD, I care about the animation. Possibly one of the most iconic graphics in the game.

  9. #789
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    dei tuuc ahr wyngz
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  10. #790
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    Out of curiosity, is there anybody anywhere who has liked any of the ability pruning? So far, of the 3 tanks I actually play, I've thoroughly disliked all but one or two things Blizzard has decided "was actually just a clutter on my bar, and not useful enough to keep around.... but evidently useful enough that if I chose to keep them around I would have a clear advantage over somebody who doesn't have 24+ keybinds memorized on 3 seperate classes (let alone a few offspecs) and found that type of gameplay distasteful."

    I think Blizzard should just bring back the Cataclysm Arcane Mage and anybody complaining about action bar clutter can go play that.
    Really, I don't know a lot about hunters and the only good advice I can give is: TURN PET TAUNT OFF! ~Aggathon

  11. #791
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  12. #792
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    I actually am a big fan. I am running out of keybinds. Now... HOW they've removed bloat... not as big of a fan. Like... instead of taking away rallying cry and demo banner for prot, how 'bout making rallying cry increase health by 20% and decrease damage taken by 10%. Or only remove one. I also completely understand removing offensive DPS options from warriors - but then removing all of the defensive raid cooldown options too? I get the feeling I am NOT going to like the healing/tank dichotomy in 6.0.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  13. #793
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    For warriors, yes i like it. but i think there's two subtley different things they're doing, first is cutting ability bloat, and this pertains to baking in Hamstring, cutting cleave, removing whirlwind/TC, cutting zerkerstance, merging Recklessness and skull banner for DPS warriors. getting rid of the buttons we don't press or just macro in. The second is a general culling of Raid CDs, lets face is the Raid CD arms race has gotten a bit out of hand, i've remeber the first tier of MoP we had 3 warriors, 2 shaman and we would cycle skull banners , Shattering Throws and stormlashes, particularly during lust. the burst potential of the raid was immense, our Ret Pally who only got his CDs to synch up 6 minutes loved it, as did our survival hunters. the problem is to compensate for that immense burst, the DPS outside of it has to be crap. and thats not a fun playstyle. Neither is the side affect that everyone has to bring a raid CD, or if stack enough Devo auras you can cheese mechanic X. I know my team cannot make it through Juggs HC without 7 people who have defensive raid CDs. It's just that fucking tight and coordinating that many raid CDs is about as interesting as a taunt swap. and is only going to get worse with readiness affecting them.

    It really is either every spec of a role has them or none do, and I don't see what everyone having one really adds. beyond further balancing concerns. we still have the option to take vigilance safeguard, which being single target actually requires me to look who to put it on.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  14. #794
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    Resolve: Increases your healing and absorption done to yourself, based on Stamina and damage taken (before avoidance and mitigation) in the last 10 sec.

    Resolve from Stamina
    • You always get a baseline amount of Resolve, based on Stamina
    • This uses the formula: Stamina / (250 * ItemScaling[PlayerLevel])
    • ItemScaling is a table with a value for each player level, that you can find in the DBC files. Ex: ItemScaling[100]=261
    • This updates dynamically with temporary stamina buffs.

    Resolve from Damage Taken
    • You also get some based on damage taken, as a % of Max Health , and decaying over time
    • The server remembers your damage taken events for the last 10 sec.
    • This portion is recalculated every 1.0 seconds and on every damage taken event.
    • Each damaging event grants 0.25 * [ Damage * 2 * ( 10 - ( Now - DamageTimestamp ) ) / 10 ] / MaxHealth
    • This averages to ~Damage/MaxHealth
    • This calculation uses the damage before damage reduction (% damage reduction effects, and armor).
    • Damage that is not mitigated by armor (Spell and Bleed damage) grants 2.5x as much Resolve.
    • Auto-attack damage that is avoided counts as the average amount of damage that that auto-attack would have done.
    • MaxHealth does not include increased max health from temporary multipliers like Last Stand, or Ursa Major.

    Additional Notes:
    • Resolve is multiplicative: A heal of size X becomes size X*(1+Resolve).
    • Resolve does not affect percent-based heals (i.e. "heals you for 20% of your life" would be unaffected.
    • There is no quick-ramp-up mechanism or taunt-transfer mechanism
    • Resolve will persist through shapeshifts.
    • Resolve only affects self-heals and self-absorbs
    • It will still have diminishing returns when attacked by multiple mobs (same formula/logic as Vengeance had)
    Just wanted somewhere i won't forget to shove the blue post.

    Level, Armor for Paladin/Warrior/Rogue Creatures, Armor for Mage Creatures
    90 445 356
    91 504 403
    92 571 457
    93 646 517
    94 731 585
    95 827 662
    96 936 749
    97 1059 847
    98 1199 959
    99 1357 1086
    100 1536 1229
    101 1670 1336
    102 1804 1443
    103 1938 1550

    Armor mitigation is now much simpler to calculate: It's simply Armor/(Armor+K). K is found by looking up the source's level in the ArmorMitigationByLvl game table.
    lvl100 ratings are: 110 for crit & mast, 80 for haste & 66 for multistrike
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 06-10-2014 at 08:28 AM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  15. #795
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    Resolve does not affect percent-based heals (i.e. "heals you for 20% of your life" would be unaffected.
    Except that it does, right now.

  16. #796
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    SO been mucking around on the Org Training dummies with lvl 100 stuff

    My stats @level 100
    • 660ilvl prot warrior
    • 301k health
    • 6112 Armor (62.87% damage reduction)
    • 3.8k str
    • 4343 AP
    • 1221 cri raitng (+11.10%crit, +7.54% Parry) total parry is 20.33%
    • 370 Haste (+4.63%)
    • 605 Mastery (+12.10%)
    • 701 Multistrike (+10.62%)
    • 224 Verstility (+22% damage/Healing, -52% damage taken!) er what?

    Gladiator stance
    • Can't use any tier 5 abilities
    • TC costs 30 rage,
    • you lose your extra health and armour I dropped down to 261k health and 4366 armour
    • You can be parried if you attack from the front
    • Shield Charge, unlike shield block, doesn't add duration if clipped
    • You still generate Rage from SS, Rev,SnB
    • You don't generate Rage form whiteswings
    • Crit is possibly devalues as Gladiator's don't have aggro to proc Revenge
    • Haste is possibly increased as more haste means fitting more HS inside a Shield Charge
    Ravager

    Our's looks very Different from Nazgrim's, our Axe is smaller, and flies an etchasketch pattern within the 8 yard AoE, and appears to have an orange glow stick attached to it. It still ticks on everything in the Radius regardless of where the Axe is

    Anger Management

    Still feels meh, on a dummy (so close to the minimum effect) this ripped about 30 seconds off Last stand/Mocking banner's CD, 20 seconds off Shield wall and 10 seconds off Demo shout
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 06-26-2014 at 06:47 AM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  17. #797
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    I'm currently trying my best to get my premade warriors ready as much as possible for the beta raid tests. Without actual math experience, I just assumed this stat priority: Bonus Armor > Stamina > Strength > Mastery > Crit and then (though much less clearly) Versatility > Multistrike > Haste. Would you recommend some completely different plan?

    I'm also doing my best to replace the starting trinkets. If SoO were easily doable, I would opt for CD-Reduction, but I'd have to get an actual raid in there for a chance at that. Including all the reasonably achievable trinkets from any game period, what would you recommend? Do cata-trinkets like symbiotic worm gain in value again with the new health meta? Should I try and get the Indomitable Pride?

  18. #798
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    I would disagree very stongly with placing Haste last. it's not that far behind crit in terms of Rage gen, and more reliable. As long as you're minimising Multistrike, I'm not sure you can go far wrong. I'm also not so sure about value of Strength. until Simcraft's updated i'm going to be very reluctant to hand out advice

    The one trinket, assuming it scales up and doesn't have a reduced proc rate for being over level 80, I'd recommend is The Black Heart from Trial of the Champion. +39 stamina with a 2.4k armour proc if my beta dungeon journal isn't lying. Imdomitable Pride is lovely trinket, but i'm not really sure its particularly going to make much of difference for beta raid testing.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  19. #799
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    Since my values were really off the top of my head guesses, I am fine changing these priorities. Do you have an opinion on Thok's Amplify-trinket under the Beta system?
    I thought 6.0 pre-WoD might make it much more valuable for a short while, due to all stats being crit/haste/mastery (instead of crit/haste/mastery/dodge/parry/hit/expertise or crit/haste/mastery/multistrike/versatility). If we avoid the two new stats, could it be helpful for beta tests too, or is the defensive gain just not strong enough?

  20. #800
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    It might be pretty good. Or it might be wank. the amp trinkets are pretty wank if you don't have a lot of secondary stats to amplify. I know i got bindings on my first lfr with my shammy and it ended up giving me less overall stats than ghost iron dragonling. so it depends where Blizz scale it, assuming it scales to the start of expansion levels it might be pretty bad.

    Ghost iron dragonling might be quite fun.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

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