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Thread: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

  1. #761
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    it's about 4-5% DPS increase. And that's not including the damage done by the Tanky panda buff on spoils.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  2. #762
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    Thanks for the info. I could defeat spoils 25m hm with the dps cloak.

    This week on to Thok. I have a couple questions for this boss.

    1. How many Bats come out in 25m on poison side? Should I use Shockwave instead of DR?

    2. On normal I would tauntswap on 3 stacks. Is it the same on Heroic?

  3. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by beat View Post
    Thanks for the info. I could defeat spoils 25m hm with the dps cloak.

    This week on to Thok. I have a couple questions for this boss.

    1. How many Bats come out in 25m on poison side?
    I believe it's 7, might be 8, but pretty sure it's 7.

    Should I use Shockwave instead of DR?
    Probably, the damage of DR decreases based on the number of mobs it hits, and really the stun from shockwave is really really nice on those guys.


    2. On normal I would tauntswap on 3 stacks. Is it the same on Heroic?
    Yes with a few exceptions.

    1) if you're about to force the transition and the other tank just got the 3rd stack, just let him finish and pick up the add as the "chase phase" starts

    2) the debuffs happen a little bit faster on the frost gate. Wait until your stacks fall off before taunting again or you may get frozen. If you kinda biff the taunt swap and go too early at some point the other tank may get frozen before you can taunt back, just make sure you taunt fast and use cooldowns. Vigilance is really useful on this fight too, btw.

    3) When the bats come out, whoever is tanking then needs to be taunted off of (should be right at 2 stacks) so they can go pick up the bats, otherwise the tank may end up with 4 stacks and go splat. So it's best just to taunt a bit early on that one.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  4. #764
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    I dodn't thin Dragon roar meteored, but eh, i hardly use it. I'm a shockwave whore.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  5. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    I dodn't thin Dragon roar meteored, but eh, i hardly use it. I'm a shockwave whore.
    Yeah, the damage is split between targets.

  6. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    Yeah, the damage is split between targets.
    Sorta. The % is split between the targets.

    1 target: 100
    2 targets: 75 x 2
    3 targets: 65 x 3
    4 targets: 55 x 4
    5+ targets 50 x (amount of targets)
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  7. #767
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    Huh, did not know that. cool. Even less reaosn to use it.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  8. #768
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    So been crunching some numbers with my RPS calculator which has had Headlong Rush Duct taped into it. and have tried running it with various Haste/mastery/crit setups. I'm assuming that the changes mentioned in yesterday's blue posts are the only changes (and i may have missed some), in short SS is worth 20 rage, Rev is 20, SnB is +5, Dev/SS crits are worth 10. and that we have the same stat coefficients as present

    Firstly, it looks like with almost no Crit, haste, and Mastery we should be able to keep Sblock up on CD, which is not surprising since this parallels our early MoP builds where we only needed to hit&exp cap to do this. I've used both 425 Haste coefficient and tried a 212.5 haste coefficient to simulate our Hidden double haste form all haste things, and think we really will be losing that since it would make us have incredibly high RPS numbers (~16rps) at end game.

    Now onto the crit haste mastery stuff; Mastery will remain a weak RPS stat, and crit will be our go to RPS stat, as such i expect the arguments as to which is better will be similar to the mastery vs avoidance arguments today, with Mastery being the more powerful survivability, especially with it offering additional AP, so fewer Sbars but they will be larger for a given amount of rage and Crit providing more DPS, more rage but less efficient SBars. Crit and mastery fail to synergise just as Avoidance and mastery fail to synergise as more white swing crits mean more parries which mean's less crit blocks, and more Revs/less Devs, so less SSs (because less SnB procs) and less Dev and SS crits. WHich we will prefer will be dependant on content and healing, so probably mastery to start with or for more difficult content and crit later once stuff becomes easier or we outgear it. Though it may be a case that more Sbars are better than bigger ones.

    Haste and Crit synergise very well, crit adds rage in static unpredictable chunks of either 10 or 20, Haste will increase all your in a very predictable manner, adding 5% haste will literally increase our RPS by 5%, because we will get 5% more white swings and our GCDs/SSs/rotation will happen 5% faster.However even with our double haste effect thing I really don't see it ever outscaling crit. its not a bad stat. it's just that haste will increase the value of cri, so if you stack Haste Crit just get better and better for you.

    I predict, tenuously, that that our priority will always be Crit>Haste, with Mastery slotting in somewhere dependant on content.


    EDIT: on interesting quirk of how the new riposte works is that we will want fast 1 handers if we want survivability, Dev is normalized so won't be affected if we use 2.4 swing speeds over our standard 2.6. HS is not normalized so will suffer. Given how weak Strength is as a stat for us at present, for min/maxing survivability it may even be worth pinching a Crit Mastery Dagger :P
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 04-05-2014 at 05:16 PM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  9. #769
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    Multi Strike:

    http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=159362
    Prot Warriors stack a % heal
    http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=159232 Bears Stack a % health increase
    http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=49509 DKs now get Scent of blood only from Multistrikes but the RP has doubled
    http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=124502 Monks just get their Current Gift of the Ox proc
    http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=159374 Pallies cuase heals they Recieve to Multistrike
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 04-09-2014 at 06:30 AM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  10. #770
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    So I've been doing some datamining and I'm falling more and more in love with Gladiator's Resolve, the 5% increase to def stance is a passive 9% decrease in damage taken, as for the DPSy half of the talent, it'll be fun on trash, or soloing and for those wondering what exactly Shield charge is.

    A
    nger Managment also looks fun 1 second every 30 rage isn't much, though it will probably scale really well towards end game especially for warriors with alot of Readiness on their gear. Assuming we get the same approx. levels rage gen, at the baseline level of RPS we're probably looking at ~25% CD reduction from baseline, end game it will be close to 40% CD reduction. We might very well get shield wall down to a 1 minute CD with the right gear.

    Ravager for prot also gives us a 20% Parry increase whilst the axe persists, and whilst a 20% parry CD for 15s every minute is nice I can't help but feel this is a bit weak, especially for Crit stackers
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 04-09-2014 at 06:30 AM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  11. #771
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    The WoD perk http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=157494 has been tickling my brain so i ran some knapkin math, if the armour DR curves are not too different this is a about +2.6% to your armour damage reductions, if you currently sitting on 60% form armour this perk would bump that to 62.6%. That may sound insubstantial, but that's an overall 6% decrease in damage taken. Combined with Gladiator's Resolve, we're likely to have the best passive damage reductions in the game.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  12. #772
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    25m heroic siegecrafter blackfuse. which 90 talent would be best for taking out th shredders?

  13. #773
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    Avatar for the burst, they don't last long enough for blood frenzy to be really effective.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  14. #774
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    Blood frenzy=Bloodbath.


    Anyway, I've been thinking about how our stats work in WoD and had a little bit query regaring AoE, so here's the run down of what Each stat does for us defensively.

    Mastery: increases AP, Chance to Block and Chance to Critically Block (which enrage us)
    Haste: lowers the GCD, AutoAttack (AA) swing times, TC and SS Cds
    Crit: AA crits give us 100% chance to parry the next attack (and proc Revenge), SS & Dev Crits Enrage us
    Multistrike AA multi strikes cause us to heal for a % of our health.

    Now i think all of these seem great. and in a single target situation they all seem fine, but lets imagine what happens when we have to tank multiple things. Mastery works well, despite its 3s ICD on enrages form crit block the damage reduction portion, Blocking nor critically blocking have an ICD so if we have to tank multiple enemies that scale linearly with them.

    Haste, isn't going to do much for us defensively in AOE situations, the lowered AA swing time as the only defensive benefit beyond the faster SSs, and the values of the AA is heavily dependant on other stats. Haste's value will always be dependant on Crit and multistrike, and mastery. more Haste means more RPS and More AAs, That RPS should translate into more Sbars (since we shouldn't have problems maxing Sblock uptime with 0 stats), haste will buff mastery because mastery also increase the size of our Sbars, Haste will buff the value of Crit and Multistrike via lower swing timers and lower GCDs.

    Crit, i get the feeling this may be rather weak, defensively it relies on SS & Dev Crits, and in AoE situations you don't use many Devastates (which has the knock on effect of decreasing the overall number of SS, further devaluing crit) and the AA Crits giving us 100% chance to Parry the next attack's effect is inversely proportional to the number of attacks we receive between white swings. If we 1 mob on us with a 1.5s swing time and our swing time is 2.6, we get 0.6*crit chance auto parries per AA. if we have 10 mobs on us it drops to 0.06*crit chance. In AoE Situations the parry for str is much more important that the parry from crit. Intuitively i assume this is done to keep Revenge procs fairly uniform, we won't get more procs than we could ever use on AOE (SS>rev>TC>rev won't be quite so common place) but we also won't likely have a full rev CD very often.

    Multistrike is in the same boat as crit as its defensive properties are entirely dependant on our AAs, I think this is mainly designed to stop us doing what we did on Magmaw in T11 multiple small hits against us cause our self healing to proc repeatedly. The problem is that its a proc and whilst it may happen very often , procced slef heals only really become viable when they have nigh 100% uptime. it's great right up until you don't get the proc at which point you fall over and your healers shit themselves.

    All in al I can understand the thinking behind each of these, but unlike Cata or MoP having a large number of mobs hitting us may not feel quite as safe., It might be quite dangerous to us, especially if Resolve mirror's Vengeance's Diminishing returns from additional mobs.

    EDIT: Or not Celestalon has tweeted that they've reiterated Riposte it no longer gives us 100% parry chance following a critical AA, instead it now just converts Crit rating into Parry rating. No idea what the coefficient is. Also apparently Bonus Armour will have some sort of DPS value too, so expect Armored to the Teeth to make a return.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 04-15-2014 at 12:19 PM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  15. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    especially if Resolve mirror's Vengeance's Diminishing returns from additional mobs..
    I get the feeling that since Resolve is the final fix for vengeance, they won't necessarily need the DR, just to adjust scaling of our self heals and absorbs. Although they might keep it in to keep Prot Paladins from gaining a 30 second indestructible buff just cause they grabbed threat on a bunch of adds for 5 seconds. Overall though I think they want us to feel like our ability to keep ourselves alive will scale somewhat linearly with the number of targets we're having to tank.
    Really, I don't know a lot about hunters and the only good advice I can give is: TURN PET TAUNT OFF! ~Aggathon

  16. #776
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    Has there been any information about Haste impacting the refreshrate of SB?
    This way it might be possible to reach 100% uptime of SB.

    Then Haste to cap>Mastery>crit might be an option.
    30-60% guaranteed hit-mitigation, Sbars to counter big chunks. Sounds nice although it would feel pretty close to pally-playstyle.

  17. #777
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    As of present information; Haste will not affect the charge time of Sblock, you will not be able to attain 100% uptime on it. the coice to disallow 100% Sblock uptime is intentional, they do not want warrior tanks to push Hit off the combat table.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  18. #778
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    it really feels like their goal is to get each secondary stat (crit, haste, mastery, MS, and whatever the other new one is) to be as even-ish as possible so that getting a new piece of gear of higher ilevel is always better.Not sure how I feel about this honestly. Heh.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  19. #779
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    Yeah, they do seem to be trying to make them rather synergistic. Unfortunately whenever they do that it usually turns into: Stack A, otherwise B and C end up not being worth as much..
    Really, I don't know a lot about hunters and the only good advice I can give is: TURN PET TAUNT OFF! ~Aggathon

  20. #780
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    Keep in mind: they are doing everything possible to try and prevent stacking. No reforging, significantly fewer gems, losing profession bonuses, fewer enchants. Etc. Etc. Fortunately the first tier has 16 bosses so hopefully there is loot diversity though.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

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