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Thread: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

  1. #701
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    Tonight was our first night on heroics, and whilst tank death was never a thing on Garrosh normal with 2 avoidance warriors, it certainly was a thing on Immerseus HC for my co-tank who elected to stick with his avoidance build.

    And the Prot 4 piece this tier is terribly underwhelming, averaging slightly less than 12 rage per demo shout tonight. That not even 1 extra sbar per 5 minutes. Maybe it'll be better on 25 man.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 11-01-2013 at 03:56 AM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  2. #702
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    Probably similar to the T15 Paladin 4p: useless on bosses that do zero damage and totally overpowered on bosses that do a ton of damage (as in, paladins on Blackfuse, Paragons and Garrosh 25 heroic use T15 4p to mitigate the incoming damage, because the bosses swing for at least 600k).

  3. #703
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    Well it is essentially the same bonus, just with a different time window.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Well it is essentially the same bonus, just with a different time window.
    Except with the T15 Paladin bonus, I can use it every 25 seconds (with the cooldown reduction trinket and Unbreakable Spirit) and not every 60 (is demo shout affected by that trinket?).
    Last edited by Fetzie; 10-31-2013 at 08:47 PM.

  5. #705
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    Welp I went all out mastery, I'm about 15% away from cap, and it's fucking awesome. Didn't die on garrosh tonight tanked the adds like a demigod. And I was still on top of the meters. Kept 50% shield block uptime, there ya go teng, and I didn't let them melee me in the BUM!!!
    I know 60% is the best uptime but I'm not a damned robot Teng!!

  6. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryjoered View Post
    Welp I went all out mastery, I'm about 15% away from cap, and it's fucking awesome. Didn't die on garrosh tonight tanked the adds like a demigod. And I was still on top of the meters. Kept 50% shield block uptime, there ya go teng, and I didn't let them melee me in the BUM!!!
    I know 60% is the best uptime but I'm not a damned robot Teng!!
    Improvement is improvement! Glad we could help and that it stopped tank deaths!
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  7. #707
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    MMO have previewed the level 100 talents and whilst these are very early and likely to change the warrior ones have me a little concerned.
    • Blade Barrier
      • Passive
      • When you Whirlwind or Thunder Clap, whirling blades continue to spin around you for 30 sec. These blades do 1000 damage every 1.00 second to all enemies within 8 yards.
    • Ravager
      • 40 yd range
      • 0.879 sec cast, 1 min cooldown
      • Throw a whirling axe at the target location that inflicts 3000 damage to enemies within 8 yards every 1 sec. Lasts 15 sec.
    • Extreme Measures
      • Arms & Fury (Masochism)
        • Instant
        • Deal damage to yourself equal to 20% of your maximum health, and gain 30 Rage.
      • Protection (Gladiator Stance)
        • Instant, 1.5 sec cooldown
        • A dauntless combat stance.
        • Increases all damage dealt by 20%. Also causes Shield Slam to consume Shield Barrier as additional damage, and have an increased chance to critically strike equal to your critical block chance.
        • Replaces Defensive Stance.
    Blade Barrier; I kinda like, it harks back to my oft pined damage shields, and is another reason to keep weaken blows up (assuming it continues to exist), Thunderclap has certainly gotten badass from the days when it only hit 5 targets and was nature damage.

    Ravager; I sorta like but has one glaring weakness, the cast time; if we can't block/dodge/parry during the cast akin to Monk's Chi Burst, it's going to keep this from being an optimal Talent choice. I can't help but think of this Talent as a sorta Diet Death and Decay, but more metal.

    Gladiator Stance; I am really concerned about this one. Replaces Def stance but doesn't give the damage reduction or the threat modifier, or saying anything about rage gen (along with the name) convinces me that this is the PVP stance. Which Thematically irritates me. Prot already suffers from it's talent tree having a couple of dummy choices (Warbringer, Bladestorm, Stormbolt, I'm looking at you, and MSR, you're only just about avoiding that list), even if we assume we keep all the benefits of def stance and this is icing on the cake its gonna pay havoc with our rotation if we're trying to time Sbars for boss nukes, essentially locking us out of shield slam until the nukes, and devaluing GoHR massively, and dropping our DPS whilst tanking significantly.

    If it really does completle replace def stance and is our ability to make Prot a viable PVP spec, it shouldn't be a talent, it certainly shouldn't be a level 100 talent, it seems more suited to a glyph (akin to Lock's glyph of demon hunting) or maybe even make it baseline for prot and replace Zerker stance.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  8. #708
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    I think it depends on what they do with defensive stance. To me it sounds like the PvP talent for prot PvPing, it seems like they really want to try and bring PvP back and make it meaningful. Ultimately I have no real concerns with it and would probably be taking blade barrier or ravager (like omg awesome ranged add pickup ability! Or like if there's a fight where you can't stand with the other tank but you need more add dps: RAVAGER!!!)
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  9. #709
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    it just annoys me that once again we get a booby talent.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  10. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    it just annoys me that once again we get a booby talent.
    ... aren't ALL talents booby talents? What were you hoping for?

    And I mean.. blade barrier sounds really F*cking awesome.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  11. #711
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    yeah exactly Agg, i'd like something that makes go "urg i dunno its all too awesome" not nice/meh/suicidal.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  12. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    yeah exactly Agg, i'd like something that makes go "urg i dunno its all too awesome" not nice/meh/suicidal.
    Because not all warriors are prot and not all prot warriors PvE only? I like it, idk what you're huffing about, lol. Sounds amazing for PvP, and the way it sounds like Ashron or whatever the PvP isle is called will shake out, seems like prot warriors may have a viable role on it.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  13. #713
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    Like Agg said, Gladiator Stance does sound like a PVP talent and I'm looking forward to testing it out. As a warrior who does some light prot-pvp once in a while, warrior's aren't the best when it comes to flag carrying and I think this will give us the boost we need. We hit like wet noodles in PVP at level.
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  14. #714
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    yeah i have no qualms with Prot being a thing in PVP, I just don't think a talent is the right way to do, Prot really should be viable in PVP baseline no?
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  15. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    yeah i have no qualms with Prot being a thing in PVP, I just don't think a talent is the right way to do, Prot really should be viable in PVP baseline no?
    I'm with Teng on this one. This should be a glyph, not a talent. The only use I see for this in PVE is a DPS race boss where you feel like the boss would be more likely to kill you by farting on you than hitting you. And that's assuming it doesn't loose the threat increase. Every other talent (imo) has it's occasional uses in both PvE and PvP, this one breaks that entirely. And then there's the fact that for Fury/Arms versions everyone i've talked to has looked at it and vomited.

    In all honesty, I'd debunk this as something Blizzard threw together because they couldn't think of anything better, and it's going to receive a lot of work.

  16. #716
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    First of all hello, i'm new here and it's a pleasure to see this forum filled with so many intersting discussions.

    In regards of Gladiator Stance, don't you think its goal would be to change the tanking dynamics in some fights? Most of all fights today have a 2 tank mechanic, whith this kind of talent it would be easier to implement fights that require one tank, with the potential use of a sturdy dps to protect the raid (or just more one tank-based fights)
    I know a lot of us have a dual spec now, but it would be a good other option if you don't have an other set of gear.
    I can also see a potential use in 5-man challenge modes, with a good group-coordination.

  17. #717
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    All of that said Aelthais, we still don't know enough about it to draw conclusions. Unless Blizzard has made some clarificationsthat I am unaware of?
    The biggest question really is: will it contain all of Defensive Stance's passives (threat, reduced damage, rage generation) with the added bonuses, or is just a stance that makes it so you can attempt to do more damage in protection in exchange for giving up some if not a lot of survivability?
    As far as making 1 tank fights less of a hassle though, that will most likely become a somewhat mute point. Since plate gear is going to be somewhat universal, the only thing you'd need for a DPS set is weapons and trinkets. That is unless Blizzard makes haste stacking viable for our DPS specs and keeps is shite for prot. Or vice-versa.

  18. #718
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    I seem to remember reading a blue that Gladiator stance won't have either the threat or damage reduction's; they remain exclusively defensive stance's, I doubt you are going to be tanking anything non-trivial is gladiator stance.

    I doubt its a change to tanking dynamics, we've had plenty of one tank fights before now so i don't think Blizzard considers having a tank go DPS for a boss or two a problem that needs addressing, and if they did where are the pally/bear/monk/dk equivalences? it seems odd they would give a solution to just warriors? if having a sturdy DPS is that much of a thing every raid team would need a warrior tank. I'm also not entirely sure that needing a sturdy DPS all the time will be a thing as both Arms Warrior and Rogues have the toolkit to be very sturdy anyway particularly for short term burst where evasion/DBS provide crit immunity and SW and feint providing some pretty powerful damage reductions, and unless you are gemming avoidance (which we can't come WoD) an arms warrior or rogue should have better avoidance at a given gear level, particularly sub rogues.

    the challenge mode thing i can kinda see, though again i'm not entirely sure if an arms warrior in d-stance would be inferior to a prot warrior in g-stance.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  19. #719
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    Gladiator stance seems purely PvP to me, hence "Gladiator"
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  20. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Gladiator stance seems purely PvP to me, hence "Gladiator"
    That does appear to be it's intended purpose. I'm still sticking with "too early to tell". That may or may not be because I'm hoping it doesn't make live in its current incarnation.

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