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Thread: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

  1. #681
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    One thing about Bladestorm;
    The stun immunity partly works on Rook Stonetoe's Vengeful strikes. You can't have it up every time, but bladestorming when he casts vengeful strikes enables you to parry/dodge alot of damage. I say "partly" because I seemed unable to move for some reason. Obviously, you can't use other abilities while bladestorming, but it's alot less dmg intake.
    Tested out cause I forgot to swap talents after experimenting with rocket boots+bladestorm on Immersius.

  2. #682
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    It's because I'm getting fucking crushed and I pop barrier, as for the mobs attacking me from behind, I guess it's possible, there is about 15 up when we go splat and they kinda swarm your character a bit ya know. Shield block uptime is low because I put up barrier as my health gets to dangerous levels.

  3. #683
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    See that's just a spiral of hurt, if mobs are getting behind you they drop you low, so you use Sbar as a clutch, which delays Sblock, making you spikier, which lead to your death.

    I really can not stress how imperative it is you do not let mobs get behind you, especially so as you've chose to build for DPS rather than survival, its bad for any tank of any class to let Mobs attack them from behind, but for a warrior whose gemming avoidance its suicidal, you can't dodge attacks from behind, you can't parry attacks from behind, you can't block attacks from behind, the vast majority of your stats are rendered useless if you lets mobs attack you from behind. You just have to not let it happen. a little strafe, a little back peddle, using shockwave to keep them still whilst you reposition, just don't let them melee you up the bum.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  4. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.
    New thread title, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  5. #685
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    Truth, we are on him again, for tomorrow night, I'll be sure that it never happens. I think some of those deaths were like after I got rezzed and the Raid leader called a wipe and I just ran to the desecrated weapon pool to kill myself off. Still, it's rule number one as a tank to never turn your back, glad that logs tell me to be more aware of these things.

  6. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    New thread title, imo.
    I have other ideas.


    On another note, I just rejoined my guild from Cata after long hiatus from raiding. We're 7/14 10N and progressing quickly (I take full damn credit, obv). I was using a full parry build with 2pc, and the rage was nice, the DPS was alright, but I was retardedly spikey, possible my gear level had a lot to do with it but I think it was mostly going avoidance. During our progression on dark shaman I told them to wait a sec while I made 14 gems and mounted the yak. Went to a buffed 71% mastery and felt infinitely less squishy, while also coming close to topping the meters. What the bloody hell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  7. #687
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    Keep trying to tell people that the full mastery build isn't THAT much less DPS if you're pushing for DPS. I've seen like a 20k DPS decrease in my output as mastery vs. parry, but... for our raid that's like a 1% dps difference, if that.

    And then you get to do RIDICULOUS things while prot, like double tank protectors while your healers bitch that there's nothing to do.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  8. #688
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    It really is down to the healers how you gear, that and how clever you're boxing. if you're healers are complaining that it boring, more avoidance if your causing wipes through dying more mastery!
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  9. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    It really is down to the healers how you gear, that and how clever you're boxing. if you're healers are complaining that it boring, more avoidance if your causing wipes through dying more mastery!
    Yeah, I think these healers are weak. The GM's wife was never good. They're casual enough for me though, I don't have the time to put in a full raid week. I could keep up block and barrier constantly with the riposte build, but found Second Wind ticking quite a lot.

    Another note, how do I know when the cloak saved me from death? Is there a buff?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  10. #690
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    Keeping SBlock up constantly is a result of hit and Expertise capping and the 5.4 changes to rage, if you could get the hit/exp caps in the 463 blue set (via Lessons of the Darkmaster) you could keep shield Block on CD, and that was when Rev only gave 15 rage and we didn't get 10 rage off SS and Dev crits.

    Played Properly the diference in rage gen between a parry build and a Mastery build is slightly more than an extra Sbar every 2 minutes.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  11. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Another note, how do I know when the cloak saved me from death? Is there a buff?
    It's a debuff, Endurance of Nizaruaordfmakdflkafe or whatever the waffle his name is.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  12. #692
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    mmm...waffles...tasty waffles

  13. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Another note, how do I know when the cloak saved me from death? Is there a buff?
    Here's a weak aura.
    Code:
    d0JmeaGEbvVuIKDjfETcnta0CfkZgHBdPUPGKhdQVjuDyI2jH9sTBK2puv)eqnmi(TkFwknujIbJinCq6GsrNwrhtGZbaluIAPaPfJswUspeiEkPLbuphvtuqzQs1KHY0v1frPUQePEgK46sAJa0wfeSzuSDeXhfK6RcImnjSnqmsOkNuigTGqJhQCjbrDliPRPGZlKUSOXbi)frTdC360Ae6NlJeoJfb(O8yOp6iz(lPWjzSTsht6HZk3k4giwrBfZkM7wR8Cjh1ceRvEUKXzbI1OaZWWZ3aghzOOasCiXJpmagsrGzqTOWkwYLFDLFwwcp2UxLIzww5s0zpX91nDzRyjx(1v(jG3MT7vPyML1FNTT56UvSKvLHPhfAAfVMGgkalnaTsLOtU7weyLnfRUskCIpPhd(KkM1WLNF)wHUx7MCEjBcp5ZJAbIvMJ(wd72jVKsSsCsm3Tw5jzycjNBww3JiD3k6kXpD3VFRWeso3DR8jTLiTgg7MD8kLisOXRBfDL4NUBnm2n74vkrKqJx3LTgsnbf0iadQl73VFRFI7b5iU1DlaBbIfOyahgcqadeeiiGbacckXlmdQdd(TU3l)5rTaXklj8y7EvkwpX91nT2tCFDtEmfAsq0e(NKi)5rbMKCjKr5XydtmHYtYALAfBYHsiJQVeEKBnKHAL52SDVkfRN4(6Mw7jUVUjpMcnjiAc)tsK)8OatsUeYO8yLZLN7Ovws4X29QumqoIBD3IalqAmybylqAmybkwG0yWIclqAm43k65U3Aww3SDE0EuOP1j8rTYIiPyH6WsRLbiBrywXbmddpFdiQqqaccqaamsCifiiqkqmdQfdwLeqdrPfbwd)o0gW4qgacababeyiGdqbL4qmdQdfwHp0q3KZnlRtmRDjDeFsbH4KJwzo6RZWtlaxyfEpOKJAbsJIaRm3MT7vPyGCe36UfbweybylcSaflcSOWIa)wPv09D22Ml3IaRyjx(1v(PlB92zsF5ppQ1qGnO9iG0eGwH3dkzCwG0OiWk)LWJ8sUj9TccBrNnOwzjHhB3RsXaMHHNVfG9Bv6Uv2uS6kPWj(KEm4tQywdxEwJq)CzKWzSiWhLhd9rhjZFjfojJTv6yspC(TsIfbfbi(Tb
    I'm finding it proc surprisingly often in heroic progression... I always make a point of saying 'I just died by the way'.

  14. #694
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    Yeah i'll second that, I hardly ever notice it proccing, but so often do I end a fight with the debuff up or notice it mid-fight that it has 20 seconds or so left.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  15. #695
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    If mastery is clearly the better option why is every single heroicly progressed protection warrior going parry/dodge? Like why is dps so important? You know what it is, it's the fucking monks. My monk co-tank literally tops the meter on every single fight. It's not fair. How could a guild not want a tank that can top the meters and be survivable it's just stupid IMO, more nerfs for monks!

  16. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryjoered View Post
    If mastery is clearly the better option why is every single heroicly progressed protection warrior going parry/dodge? Like why is dps so important? You know what it is, it's the fucking monks. My monk co-tank literally tops the meter on every single fight. It's not fair. How could a guild not want a tank that can top the meters and be survivable it's just stupid IMO, more nerfs for monks!
    Because tank survivability isn't the issue for those raids.

    It almost always boils down to needing more damage. If the tanks aren't dying and you need more damage to push the boss to a threshold value, and the tank could do more damage without dying, then that tank sets his gear up to do more damage to the boss. That can be the difference between killing a boss, or needing another week of loot for the DPS.

  17. #697
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    I very much doubt every single heroic progression warrior is going avoidance, and those that are probably are conferring with their healers about it, and i doubt any that are let the mobs hit them from behind. Furthermore Healing a world class team is easier than healing a semi progressed team. I remember Lore saying something about the world first Ragnaros HC team and looking at their videos, 25 people moving in perfect unison, there just wasn't any damage being taken beyond the unavoidable so they could 2 heal it. And if you are playing well, and most HC progression tanks probably are, trading off a small amount of survivability isn't going to wipe your team, so its a case of trading unkillable for unkillable with more DPS. However if you're not remaining unkillable it's no longer such a good deal. If you're playing an avoidnace build properly and your healers are healing properly and your DPS is DPSing properly and your other tank is tanking properly everything will be fine. if you're healers are having an off night, or your DPS arne't getting stuff down fast enough, or are taking unnecasary damage, or your tanks are letting stuff up their arse or not rauting right or not using CDs right , things will go to shit.

    This goes the same for Monks, they stack Crit for avoidance (reverse riposte) and are more likely to go splat than if they stack mastery, if you're going the DPS route as a tank you just have to be aware that you will be squishier and thus have to pay more attention to your survivability, monk or warrior.

    EDIT:...I remember when i used to beat fetzie on answering posts.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  18. #698
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    I mean obviously I couldn't of tanked this tier up till now or any tiers b4 it if I was constantly getting meleed in the back. Give me some slack.
    Besides, of courseit's not 100 percent that is stacking parry dodge but it is safe to say MOST

  19. #699
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    Also it really depends on the fight. Treckie from METHOD (you know, that #1 guild that killed all the heroic stuff FIRST) even said that prot warriors should really be going mastery for the tough progression fights with high tank damage, like Garrosh and some of the harder HM fights. Not all of them require it though, so there's a lot of fights were tanks will go DPS b/c that's the fight they're working on and need to kill.

    Sometimes they also do it to dick around and see if they can get away with it, even though they know mastery is better for survivability.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  20. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryjoered View Post
    If mastery is clearly the better option why is every single heroicly progressed protection warrior going parry/dodge? Like why is dps so important? You know what it is, it's the fucking monks. My monk co-tank literally tops the meter on every single fight. It's not fair. How could a guild not want a tank that can top the meters and be survivable it's just stupid IMO, more nerfs for monks!
    That's not exactly true. Going into 5.4, most of the top warrior tanks went parry/dodge through normals and beginning heroics...switched to mastery during the latter 1/3 of SoO, and are now in parry/mastery builds as most of the content is on farm/healer gear caught up to them.

    Side note: don't ever compare yourself to how people 1/2 a tier+ in gear higher than you are doing things....it's not the same. Your healers aren't as good as theirs and your dps probably aren't either. So it's comparing apples to oranges.

    Side note 2: your build is really up to your healers/dps as others suggest. If you're struggling hitting enrage, you need the extra dps...if you're struggling with tank death, you need the extra survivability. When I switched mastery to avoidance, my heals had a tough time the first week because it wasn't what they were used to...but they caught up with me and now I stay in that build cause I like to epeen meters

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