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Thread: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

  1. #561
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    In any case, Agg's still right; Increasing Avoidance means you get less Critical Blocks.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  2. #562
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    I've been playing around with more sims and i think the lack of hit/exp value i'm seeing is due to my Trinket choice. I run with Lao-chin's and Jade Warlord, which I chain with my engineering gloves and demo shout, I'm assuming this is becuase I've near always got something up regardless of Shield Block. With either of Tier 16 or 15 4pcs i do always have something up.

    Which brings me onto another Idea, the Tank meta gem, I've been treating it as just a passive bonus, i'm considering that maybe i should be managing my extra stuff around it, holding off the chain until the buff is down..

    Thoughts?
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  3. #563
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    Re: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

    I can't see how it would hurt to manage CDs around the meta proc.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    I've been playing around with more sims and i think the lack of hit/exp value i'm seeing is due to my Trinket choice. I run with Lao-chin's and Jade Warlord, which I chain with my engineering gloves and demo shout, I'm assuming this is becuase I've near always got something up regardless of Shield Block. With either of Tier 16 or 15 4pcs i do always have something up.

    Which brings me onto another Idea, the Tank meta gem, I've been treating it as just a passive bonus, i'm considering that maybe i should be managing my extra stuff around it, holding off the chain until the buff is down..

    Thoughts?
    Yeah, the benefit/duration are such that I just roll demo shout and shield wall around it.
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

  5. #565
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    Re: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

    How much dodge/parry do we lose vs a boss mob? Is it .5% of each per level or more?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  6. #566
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    I Liked to keep Shieldwall for boss specials and it's such a long CD that between Tinker and trinkets i'm overflowing in CDs.

    1.5% per level
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  7. #567
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    Just going to do a little run down of myself on simcraft. Basically using SBlock on CD and using Sbar to bleed extra rage, and cycling trikets, and using demo shout to plug any holes in trinket/meta gem uptime. approx. ~540 ilvl. There are presently 2 known bugs with SimC's warrior module; firstly Glyph of Hold the Line isn't proccing, and secondly Ultimatum isn't forcing HS to auto-crit. so the DPS value of Parry and Crit are slightly under estimated. I disabled Second Wind for the purpose of calcualting TMI, it's contributions are massively affecting te results as unlike live ~80% of the time its ticking.

    T16Q, Live,201695 dps, 84133 dtps, 397.5k TMI
    Smoothing Stat Priority Stam>Mastery> Hit=Exp>Dodge=Parry>Crit
    TDR stat Priority: Mastery>Hit=Exp>Dodge=Parry>Crit=Stam
    DPS stat Priority: Hit>Exp>Crit>Parry>Dodge>Stamina
    Weight TMI DTPS DPS
    Stamina 100.39 0.00 0.00
    Mastery 53.71 1.82 0.31
    Hit 50.66 1.63 5.75
    Exp 40.30 1.60 5.61
    Dodge 20.56 1.33 0.07
    Parry 21.49 1.32 0.17
    Crit 0.0 0.0 3.18

    Now those of you who've been keeping up with Theck's Simcraft work and how to properly use TMIs are probably going to take issue at my rather High TMI and tell me i should be using a softer hitting boss, but on T15 LFR/10N hits me so lightly it doens't really matter what my stats are as my TMI is a piddling 600. T15 10HC/25N, where i have a respectable TMI of 5142, Mastery is worth 0.6 of Stamina (the threshold is 0.75, above that we're better off gemming Mastery). On T12 25HC, 30,319 TMI, Mastery has dropped to 0.57 of Stamina's value, compared with the 0.54 we see here against T16Q. Hit and Exp are staying behind Mastery probably becuase I'm either producing enough rage that getting AMs up is trivial or that i'm so rediculously Smooth, that getting them up isn't a great priority, Probably a bit of both though a bit more the later.


    T16Q PTR 207,789 dps, 70,914 dtps, 166.3k TMI
    Smoothing Stat Priority Stam>Mastery> Hit=Exp>Dodge=Parry>Crit
    TDR Stat Priority Hit=Mastery=Exp>Dodge=Parry>Crit=Stam
    DPS stat Priority: Hit>Exp>Crit>Parry>Dodge>Stamina

    Weight TMI DTPS DPS
    Stamina 42.10 0.00 0.00
    Mastery 22.79 1.67 0.19
    Hit 20.17 1.72 5.45
    Exp 15.87 1.62 5.27
    Dodge 10.76 1.57 2.45
    Parry 11.32 1.55 2.59
    Crit 2.48 0.33 3.18

    The T16Q boss swings at me for 174k on average hit, about 20% of my health, so a 5 hit string would be nigh-fatal, as such we can see that even a low avoidance warrior like me is going to see significant survivabilty advantage to the changes to Enrage and Revenge with regards to both damage smoothing (better than halving my TMI) and damage taken (16% less), however DPS is barely an improvement from 201k to 207k dps, a mear 6k (3%) increase. Now i don't feel particularily squishy on live, and my damage is so smooth my healers don't see, or at least don't notice any damage spikes unless I cock up the mechanics (like taking 4 talon rakes whilst having 15 stacks of infected wounds without any CDs up), so i'm not too happy with where this leaves prot warrior gearing.

    Hit and Exp caps are negotiable from a damage smoothing POV, though i'd still cansider them mandatory becuase they're our best DPS stats and being able to reliably predict how much rage i'll have over the next few seconds is great for mitigating Boss Specials (something i didn't sim here, but doesn't actually have much effect on our stat priority). the question is where to draw the line in trading off stamina or prefeable mastery for avoidance, and that is going to vary from group to group, encounter to encounter. so i Simmed around if traded out my entire stam/mastery quoitient from gems for dodge not a perfect trade just to see how it would effect me.

    218816 dps, 64151 dtps, 354.1k TMI. I gained 9kDPS am almost as spikey as I am without the enrage/rev buffs, and take 6k less damage. Not sure i'd call that a great boost, even if 63k health isn't a large amout of price to pay. On the plus side i'm pretty happy that it doens't make us any more spikey than we presently are, so maybe its not that bad a trade off. Especially if it makes warrioring more fun
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 09-04-2013 at 05:46 AM.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  8. #568
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    So after raiding fury for this tier and being a backup tank, I have recently been thrust into the starting role and will be one of the two main tanks for SoO (25 man)--short version: I'm trying to play catch up on the 5.4 theorycrafting. Having been just a backup in the guild, I've been given the gear scraps and have a very heavy avoidance set which sims to ~9k dps gain once the patch hits, but obviously I will have a much better choice of gear going forward.

    Given your recent sims (and some I've done on myself), it seems that a stam/mastery build is the best way to go in general, particularly for 25 man normal and on into heroic. Is this basically correct, or am I missing something?

  9. #569
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    I would agree a stam/mastery build is the best, though honestly that could depend on how the boss fights pan out. I still think that hit/exp to cap is the best way to go because it provides a more reliable rage income, especially with how much ivalue we hae floating around.

    After that how much stam and mastery really depends on what the bosses do. If it's a lot of hard hitting melee attacks, then mastery is probably going to be the best. However, if there's lots of deadly magical damage being tossed around in SoO, then stam is going to be real important since it's really the only secondary stat that DOES anything for non-physical attacks (except for hit/exp to caps).

    Really, imo, the avoidance changes are mediocre at best. It doesn't really change anything.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  10. #570
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    No you're not missing anything Drakond, you might find mastery becomes a viable competitor for gemming after you get the tier16 2pc, and like Agg said Hit/Exp capping can give you a lot of freedom with Rage.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  11. #571
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    Yea I had taken hit/exp cap as a given. Shame avoidance turned out to be less viable than I was hoping, I was very much looking forward to cannibalizing the gear with no competition. Anyway, appreciate the feedback.

  12. #572
    For full BIS prot heroic 25 t16. Do you think we're gonna be gemming for Stam or mastery.

  13. #573
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    Stamina at least until you get the T16 2pc. Then its probably not going to matter.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  14. #574
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    I vote stam. Just because it will be silly to see tanks with well over 1 million hit points.

    YEAH, SUCK THIS BOSS, CAN'T HIT THAT HARD CAN YOU!?!?!?!
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  15. #575
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    T15+t16 2pc Combo could be very fun, and but fun I mean self healy
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  16. #576
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    Been simming myself (ilvl 535ish) with a bunch of different trinkets and gem setups. Trying to more accurately prepare for Siege, and i'm also going back on my previous sims. I've dropped down from T16q to T15 25HC. THis does mean the boss still capable of killing me with a 3 hit string. When trinkets have an on use I use them to fill gaps in met gem uptimes, SB used whenever available, Sbar to counter spikes and to bleed rage.

    Stamina stacking, Mastery reforging Lao-Chins & jade warlord: 176,104 dps, 64,252 dtps, 10095.9 TMI
    Mastery stacking, SPA & Stuff of night mares: 184635 dps, 48943 dtps, 9655.0 TMI
    Mastery stacking, Lao-chins & jade Warlord: 177561 dps, 51605 dtps, 6285.7 TMI
    Mastery Stacking SPA & Fortitude: 181080 dps, 46078 dtps, 796.7 TMI
    Avoidance Stacking, SPA & Stuff of Nightmares: 202395 dps, 46361 dtps, 11117.3 TMI
    T15 heroic Pally haste stacking Soul Barrer & Lao-chins: 212626 dps, 84195 dtps, 19683.1 TMI

    First thing to take away form this: We're less squishy than Paladins. Even with a full avoidance setup, we're less squishy than an equivalent ilvl paladin. We also suck balls at pumping out DPS, we're still ~5% behind the paladin on DPS even in our most DPSy setup.

    Mastery is a Very nice for smoothing 1:1 Stamina is worth more.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  17. #577
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    So is lower TMI better? Can someone please explain to me how all this works? lol.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  18. #578
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    Yes, think of it as a measure of spikeyness, less spiky is better, and since you're a mathy type i'll just redirect you to the Full explanation
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  19. #579
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    Coming from the idea of maximizing what I will have (not raiding; yay RL) riposte is not doing a thing for us in Live?

    Stick with the stam/mastery/fit in DPS pieces to up my 5-man awesomeness; cuz we know how important that is. LoL.

    More curious about the Riposte.

  20. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkTank View Post
    Coming from the idea of maximizing what I will have (not raiding; yay RL) riposte is not doing a thing for us in Live?

    Stick with the stam/mastery/fit in DPS pieces to up my 5-man awesomeness; cuz we know how important that is. LoL.

    More curious about the Riposte.
    For 5 mans you can stack level 80 spirit gear and it won't affect your survivability much. So, I'd say crit and avoidance gear, don't worry too much about stamina or mastery whatsoever. I mean if you go into LFR you'll see buffed tanks sitting at 400k hp. It's ridiculous. 10/25 man normal/heroic is a different story (we can hope for everyone).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

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