Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

[oceanlord]

Ya, 10 points over the cap is probably close enough, very little value lost, you won't notice a difference.

thanks, will reforge this later, need some more vp

[Magicrafter]

How to calculate the critical block? Who knows the complete formula?

[Quietsch]

(8 + Mastery/600) * 2.2

[Magicrafter]

If we have more than 102.4% miss+parry+dodge+block, is it increase our critical block? We can use shield block, for example.

[oceanlord]

If we have more than 102.4% miss+parry+dodge+block, is it increase our critical block? We can use shield block, for example.

i thought there is no 102,4% anymore, no ctc cap its active mitigation tanking now, u have to always use skill

[Aggathon]

102.4% for full passive CTC still exists... just... not like it used to because block is a 2 roll system now. First you avoid, then you roll for block, so technically you need 102.4% block in order to get full CTC now. But essentially yes, that's gone because you need insane ilevel that isn't currently obtainable. It might be towards the end of MoP but right now it's not realizable.

So... when you use shield block say you have a 40% chance to avoid, but you have a 100% chance to block, then of that % chance to block that block could be a critical block, so technically on any individual swing your % chance to crit block is not what it is on the tooltip because it's reduced by avoidance. It IS correct for your % chance to crit block when you do block though.

Anyways. Basically yes, you can't go over 102.4% any more, so it makes crit block make more sense. Two roll system. I'm tired.

[Magicrafter]

One more question.
I have
20% block rating
33% critical block
when i use shield block
block rating becomes 120%
critical rating becomes 33% or 40.6%(120-102.4+33)?

[Aggathon]

Your chance to have any particular attack landed against you be a critical block while shield block is up is (I assume 40.6% is your avoidance rating):

(102.4-40.6)*33%


In other words you have a 61.8% chance to not avoid, and since with shield block up you are guaranteed to block, you have a 33% chance of one of those 61.8% chance attacks to be critically blocked.

Your chance for any attack that you block to be a critical block is still 33%. Just the number of swings that are blocked are dependent upon your avoidance since it is a two roll system.

I'm pretty tired, so I might not be explaining this well. Does this make sense?

[Quietsch]

102.4% for full passive CTC still exists

Technically there exist 2 caps. One for dodge + parry, which is at 109% and one for block, which is at 104.5%. You could cap either one for passive ctc-cap. It doesn't matter if you get to the equivalent of those old 102.4% with dodge + parry or block. (Your numbers are somewhat off, as the reduction against bosslvl is now 1.5% per level instead of 0.2% - and 'seperate' combattables and no more miss vs. bosslvl)

It might be towards the end of MoP but right now it's not realizable.

It won't. You'd need around 250000 mastery rating or even more dodge + parry rating. (Don't make the mistake of mixing up block and critblock - 100% critblock are probably reachable at the end - or maybe the mid - of MoP)

One more question.
I have
20% block rating
33% critical block
when i use shield block
block rating becomes 120%
critical rating becomes 33% or 40.6%(120-102.4+33)?

The critblock value doesn't change. The only thing which changes is the amount of blocks, on which it applies.
With 20% avoid, 20% block and 50% critblock, outside of SB you'd block (1-.2)*.2 of the incoming hits, and of those 50% would be normal blocks and 50% critblocks. While SB is up, you'd block (1-.2)*1 of the incoming hits, and of those 50% would be normal blocks and 50% critblocks.
/e this is against a mob at the same level. Versus bosslevel, it would be (1-(.2-0.09))*(.2-.045) and (1-(.2-0.09))*1 (in the last case, the leveldifference basically doesn't matter, as you've got over 104.5% block while SB is up, but you can't block more than 100% of the not-avoided hits, so...)

[theodisius]

mmm anyone know a good character planner website?chardev isnt updated for 5.1, can't found my ring there

hi, i've tried reforging etc. in askmrrobot

I think AskMrRobot can do what chardev used to. You can switch gear, enchants and gems then see your revised character stats. For example, I've just checked to see what would happen if I were to switch from stamina to haste in my tankadin's gear (lost 37k HPs for 5% haste). The gearing weights tend to favor gemming for stamina all tanks, which many tanks object to. However, you can lower the stamina weight if you like. And for character planning, you don't even need to consider the weights and values - just look at the stats and make your own evaluaton.

[Gregasaurous]

Technically there exist 2 caps. One for dodge + parry, which is at 109% and one for block, which is at 104.5%. You could cap either one for passive ctc-cap.

Except that (if memory serves correctly) due to DR you literally need and infinite amount of dodge and parry rating to get over their respective "hard caps".

[Tengenstein]

Replace memory.

[Gregasaurous]

Replace memory.

Elaborate? Or simply put the "hard caps" would actually add up to 109%? I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but i thought they added up shy of 100%, if not lower.

[Tengenstein]

IIRC the cap for dodge is somewhere in the region of 65% the cap for parry is somewhere in the region of 235%

[Airowird]

IIRC the cap for dodge is somewhere in the region of 65% the cap for parry is somewhere in the region of 235%

This.

Strength tanks can hardcap avoidance through Parry, Agility tanks can cap out through Dodge, although I do not expect there to be enough rating overall on gear by the end of MoP to make such a thing possible even if you could reforge all stats as you preferred.
The same goes for Block, as you'ld need ~100000 rating to cap out Block (while crit block caps out at just under 27.3k)

So CTC-capping will technicly be impossible in MoP ... unless you press Shield Block

[jere]

Note that those values for parry and dodge are asymptotes for the DR curve. For the y(x) = 1/(1/Cp + k/x) diminishing returns equation, y(x) only reaches Cp when x->infinity. Now from a display perspective, you could argue hard caps, but from a function standpoint, you cannot solve y(x) = Cp = 1/(1/Cp + k/x), you can only take the limit as x->inifinity

Edit: some math to back it up:

y(x) = Cp = 1(1/Cp + k/x)
Cp(1/Cp +k/x) = 1
1 + (Cp*k)/x = 1
(Cp*k)/x = 0

There is no solution for this equation.

However, if you take the limit of y(x) as x->infinity:

lim y(x->inf) = 1/(1/Cp + 0) = Cp

There are some digital limits though such as size type maximum values for internal variables that will provide hard caps. Display is only to the 2nd decimal place even though the math is probably carried out in signed 32bit ints or floats/doubles (just a guess on my part)

[oceanlord]

wrong section

[sifuedition]

Oceanlord, you should really start a thread in the Halp! forum instead of asking in the middle of another thread.

[oceanlord]

Oceanlord, you should really start a thread in the Halp! forum instead of asking in the middle of another thread.

okay im sorry, didnt read the whole forum

[Reclzz]

Hey Tengenstein

i was wondering if you can come with your 10 cent on why Kungen from Nihilum http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ungen/advanced (and to a large degree other warrior tanks i see) isn't expertise capped?

I myself http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dwgan/advanced is trying to get to 7.5% hit and 15% Expertise, but as i only does 5 Man and 25 LFR i was wondering if it would be better to sacrifise some expertise for more health?

Cheers