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Thread: Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide

  1. #241
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    More sim info from Theck: http://sacredduty.net/2012/09/18/l90...tion-followup/

    Wasn't sure if anyone had seen it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takethecake View Post
    They changed expertise so it only affects dodge until dodge is removed from the table, then it affects parry. So the first 7.5% of expertise removes dodge and the second 7.5% removes parry. Effectively the only difference between hit and expertise is that some abilities can't be dodged/parried and some can't be missed, so for those specific abilities one may be better than the other. Overall they are almost equal in overall output for warriors. I think I remember reading that for paladins hit is slightly better.
    Mehhhh, i don't mean to be annoyingly nitpicky, but this is assuming you are tanking a singular raid-boss. Your statement is true for a target that is (or is considered) three levels higher than you. However at 3% expertise dodge is removed form the table on a equal level target. Additional rating past 3% expertise will also begin to remove parry on an equal level target from the table. The same is true of the 4.5% mark, where dodge is removed from a target one level higher than you additional rating will also start to count towards parry. The same happens at 6% for two levels higher (5 man bosses). So, yes at 7.5% expertise dodge is off the table and an additional 7.5% effects parry on a raid-boss.

  3. #243
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    Teng, you work so hard to keep us warrior informed and on the right path. This warrior greatly appreciates you

  4. #244
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    So I read something interesting I wanted the community here to comment on:

    That being said, Blizzard has inadvertently (or intended, but I doubt it) given us a choice, and an easy one in my opinion.

    Option 1: We can select our gear directly to generate rage and maximize our active mitigation via not missing Shield Slam, but substantially reducing the number of Revenge procís we get by selecting one Hit or Expertise secondary stat combined with one Mastery, Dodge, or Parry stat. All the while we take more damage over the course of the entire encounter from the reduced Dodge, Parry, and Mastery loss we sustain from choosing Hit or Expertise.

    Option 2: We continue to aim for maximum avoidance and mitigation stats. While we do miss the occasional Shield Slam, but overall we get more Revenge procís. Contrary to option #1, we take less damage across the duration of an encounter due to the added dodge, block, and parry.
    So if I read this right, Blizzard failed to make Hit and Exp worth having yet again? Ive been watching the armory of a couple notable tanks in the high end world and notice they are going with option 2.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    So I read something interesting I wanted the community here to comment on:



    So if I read this right, Blizzard failed to make Hit and Exp worth having yet again? Ive been watching the armory of a couple notable tanks in the high end world and notice they are going with option 2.
    Both methods are fine. Reforging dodge and parry into hit, expertise and mastery doesn't really force you to lose a whole lot of avoidance thanks to DR. Not to mention the early epic gear is packed with avoidance anyway. Theck also did the math on gearing for both via simcraft and found that gearing for not missing makes the warrior take ~10% more damage overall, but it's smoothed and predictable (think pre-cata EH vs avoidance).

    Also, the point was made somewhere that if you're unsure what to do, look at what the top tanks are doing. Well, Kungen, Grafarion, and Sco are each using a different method.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  6. #246
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    Whether you're doing 10s or 25s may also influence your choiece of secondary stats. in 10s where you're not so likely to be covered by multiple dedicatews tank healers and tank damage isn't quite so high the hit/exp method will likely be more succesful, in 25 where you probably are taking huge amount sof tank damage that 10% extra mayjust be enough to make it untenable. However what this fails to address is that you could walk somewhere between the two without just going one way the other. Hit/exp protects against damage spikes, avoidance helps stop your healers going OOM. You could go for a balanced amount of both ~4000rating of hit/exp and ~4000 rating of avoidance (which is where i feel alot of tanks uncounsciously are). The important thing is to comprehend what our secondary stats do, and tailor them to suit what is happening in the encounters you run.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Also, the point was made somewhere that if you're unsure what to do, look at what the top tanks are doing. Well, Kungen, Grafarion, and Sco are each using a different method.
    Also, when looking at what top tanks are doing, you have to keep in mind that they might be tailoring their gear based on the skill of their healer. Top level healers like that might not care as much about spikes, where-as the average healer might accidentally OOM themselves treating spikes as normal damage intake.

  8. #248
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    "top tanks" also tailor their setup to a particular boss they are progressing on depending on their needs.

  9. #249
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    I was implying you should probably not take your cues from them for those exact reasons. Raid size, healers, and fight are all factors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  10. #250
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    Yeah, i caught that, i was reinforcing your point.

  11. #251
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    Something that was mentioned before in the tread was vigilance resets cool down of taunt when the target takes damage this is no longer correct. Vigilance removes the cool down of taunt well active. This makes it amazing as an off tank who needs to pick up adds. However if it is on cool down it does not remove the current cool down which is frustrating so don't taunt then vigilance vigilance then taunt.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drork View Post
    Something that was mentioned before in the tread was vigilance resets cool down of taunt when the target takes damage this is no longer correct. Vigilance removes the cool down of taunt well active. This makes it amazing as an off tank who needs to pick up adds. However if it is on cool down it does not remove the current cool down which is frustrating so don't taunt then vigilance vigilance then taunt.
    I didn't see that one, BUT however in the guide Teng did leave off the second half of the vigilance tool-tip. ATM he has the damage transfer part, but left off the bit where there is no CD on taunt during its' duration.

    Might want to fix that btw Teng....
    Last edited by Gregasaurous; 10-08-2012 at 04:24 AM.

  13. #253
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    I left it out becuase when i wrote the guide it wasn't there. Bloody stealth buffs Blizzard.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  14. #254
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    As far as gearing for specific encounters, Gara'jal the Spirit Binder's voodoo doll damage is shared based on final damage taken. So shield barrier effectively blocks 2.4x the damage it does on other fights.

  15. #255
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    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794712080#1

    So Blizzard hotfixed vengeance.....

    Thoughts, opinions?
    Last edited by Gregasaurous; 10-08-2012 at 03:48 PM. Reason: totally missed a key point in the hotfix

  16. #256
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    Thank F***.

    I was whinging about this nearly a month ago. its retarded that blizzard don't want us to play the threat game but conversely an avoidance streak on the pull complete screwed over your vengeance stacking. Hurting Threat where it mattered most. Hallelujah, Twittering GC had an affect.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  17. #257
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    Teng: if damage intake is higher in 25 mans, you're going to want to avoid spike damage even more. Spike damage is what makes healers go OOM, not damage taken over time. Giving healers a bigger buffer, more reaction time, smoother damage intake, and the ability to use sbarrier as an "oh shit" button requires you to not miss those critical shield slams. From my seat (now that I've actually played a warrior and seen how it kinda pans out) hit/expertise to cap is definitely the way to go.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
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  18. #258
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    If you're mainly using Sbar then yeah.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  19. #259
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    That's not really what I'm arguing. I don't really have time to type it out right now. Maybe go see my other thread?
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  20. #260
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    I did. I can see where your coming from, I just don't think its an issue becuase you produce a crap tonne of rage anyway. I want you to be right, but my anecdotal evidance is that if i drop mastery into connectivity stats, i stop being able to keep Shield Block up on CD, let alone keep it up and weave SBars in to cover the SB down times.

    If you're mainly using Sbar as your dump then yeah mastery is crap. If your using heroic strike as your dump either you're a lucky bastard, or you should uninstall.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
    MoP RPS Calculator

    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

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