Tier 14 in Mists of Pandaria to have mini tiers in itself!

[leethaxor]

Thank you.

/Internet Fist Bump

[Aggathon]

there is an achievement for doing the bosses without the debuff on.

[Fetzie]

No, no you can't. That is the dumbest argument ever. Unless there is separate achievements for doing it with the buff off there is no reason what so ever to turn it off. There is no way to prove you did with with the buff off unless you start totalling damage from logs.

Turning off nerfs just hurts your own position in where ever you are. My arguement has always been if your concerned about nerfs then kill it before it is nerfed, if you can't then your the reason it was nerfed.

There will be a feat of strength for killing bosses either before the debuff goes in, or with it disabled.

[leethaxor]

there is an achievement for doing the bosses without the debuff on.

In Mop? o.o

[Bovinity]

There is no way to prove you did with with the buff off unless you start totalling damage from logs.

Well, if the buff is something that appears on the players, there would be a definite lack of said buff on the logs, wouldn't there?

[Theotherone]

Blizzard, just give me raids with some new art and interesting fights to prove to me that your not just going to reskin everything and push some junk out the door and I'll be happy, I could care less about kill order (if you want to do one or two bosses like Sinestra or Mally that have prerequisite kills, fine). 5 months of DS has made me not want to ask too much.

Turn off any nerf/buff, as one of the posts said above there will be Feats of Strength for killing the bosses with nerf/buff turned off.

[Leucifer]

there is an achievement for doing the bosses without the debuff on.

I can support this...........

Besides. It's not like Blizzard has gone to the effort of saying "OK!!! Timer's running! You have 8 weeks to kill before we debuff by 5%! GO!"

Blizzard, just give me raids with some new art and interesting fights to prove to me that your not just going to reskin everything and push some junk out the door and I'll be happy, I could care less about kill order (if you want to do one or two bosses like Sinestra or Mally that have prerequisite kills, fine). 5 months of DS has made me not want to ask too much.

YES!!!! THAT!!!

[leethaxor]

Well, if the buff is something that appears on the players, there would be a definite lack of said buff on the logs, wouldn't there?

Currently in dragonsoul since the buff is applied on entry it doesn't appear on boss in logs. So you have to sit there and manually add the bosses health. That or I screwed up my log filters last night :x

[Aggathon]

I still think the FOS is bullshit. What there should be is an FOS for whatever debuff % you originally cleared it at, and a separate, regular, achievement for doing it without the debuff on. To me, that's the only way to encourage people to kill the boss without the debuff FIRST, before over gearing it with later gear and coming back and doing it some day and calling it a feat of strength.

[Theotherone]

I still think the FOS is bullshit. What there should be is an FOS for whatever debuff % you originally cleared it at, and a separate, regular, achievement for doing it without the debuff on. To me, that's the only way to encourage people to kill the boss without the debuff FIRST, before over gearing it with later gear and coming back and doing it some day and calling it a feat of strength.

This would lead to the question of where would you draw the line as to average gear level of the raid so that they would not have over geared it? With the stat inflation, if you had everyone in raid in 1/2 current tier gear, you're pretty much on the downhill slope to overgearing regular modes. I don't think it's possible to cut the diamond as fine as you'd like.

[Aggathon]

This would lead to the question of where would you draw the line as to average gear level of the raid so that they would not have over geared it? With the stat inflation, if you had everyone in raid in 1/2 current tier gear, you're pretty much on the downhill slope to overgearing regular modes. I don't think it's possible to cut the diamond as fine as you'd like.

I'm so confused, what does this have to do with anything? If you get a Feat of Strength that says what % you killed the boss at first (since you can't tune down the debuff, only turn it off), then whatever % that is (because it's a first time kill only achievement) delineates how serious you were about it. If it's a first time only kill, the relative "gear-flation" you can get is limited to what bosses you are capable of killing. The "overgearing" is due to loot you get from bosses you wouldn't have already killed.

[Theotherone]

I misunderstood what you were saying at first, re-reading it a few times I get it now. I was thinking you wanted a FoS for bascially not outgearing and I couldn't see how that would work. However, if I understand correctly, it would be one regular achievment for no debuff (no matter when you kill it) and an FoS for first kill with the percent debuff. Makes sense.

[Aggathon]

yup, exactly!

[Sharku]

If this FoS thing for killing stuff pre nerf or with the nerf switched off is going to be a thing for this upcoming tier and future tiers, wouldn't the Herald of the Titans style achievement getting players to "kill it with no gear equipped with higher item level than is available on normal mode" work? Or am I missing something here?

[Theotherone]

yup, exactly!

I was a little burnt by the time I read it, was reading software licenses all day.

[Lysiander]

Regarding Attunements, The whole purpose of the concept is to:
a.) Keep the first wave entry at a controlled pace.
b.) Ensure that people do not enter the raid utterly undergeared/ unprepared.

Neither of these actually requires killing the endboss, just the gearcheck bosses. Knowing that, I never understood why Blizzard doesn't just make dynamic attunements. Say you have Raid A required for Raid B. Raid A drops itemlevel x and B drops itemlevel y. Just make a quest that requires either killing the Endboss of A or the accumulation of a certain amount of itemlevel x to complete. Either way, you ensure that people have some experience in Raid A as well as the gear to actually tackle Raid B.
Then just make the attunement go bye bye once new content deploys. And introduce a new attunement for the current content. Rise repeat.

[Takethecake]

No, no you can't. That is the dumbest argument ever. Unless there is separate achievements for doing it with the buff off there is no reason what so ever to turn it off. There is no way to prove you did with with the buff off unless you start totalling damage from logs.

I thought they said they were adding a feat of strength for completing raids without the nerf buff active.

EDIT: apparently I fail at seeing a second page for this thread.