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Thread: PST - Episode 89

  1. #1

    PST - Episode 89



    This week:
    0:45 - Should LFR fights have the same mechanics, just smaller numbers?
    4:31 - Should we be able to choose our set bonuses?
    9:05 - Will adding hit and expertise to tanking itemization make things too complicated?
    14:13 - Are raids just going to get smaller and smaller?
    23:07 - With the removed cap on daily quests, are raiders going to be pressured into doing too many dailies?
    27:18 - Why not make bosses only drop items the raid can use?
    32:19 - Should battlegrounds have a role-based queuing system like LFR?
    37:40 - What was your favorite Cataclysm boss encounter?
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  2. #2
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    Pfft healers are very important in Strand. Dispelling the seiges so they can storm through is how it's done!

  3. #3
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    One way I would like to see dailies with rep work is, maybe make dailies stop giving you rep past honoured, and maybe instead, cause certain boss fights give rep. Then after about 3 months, allow dailies to give rep again for the casual/late players.
    Arms DPS main spec // Prot warrior tank off-spec

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    Pfft healers are very important in Strand. Dispelling the seiges so they can storm through is how it's done!
    As a disc priest I second this.

    Just supposing Blizzard does fix the issue with drops that don't benefit the raid... what are Enchanters going to do?
    Edit: The same loot fix implemented for raids would most likely be brought to dungeons as well. A lot more gear would be given to players that it would directly benefit. Currently, Enchanters depend on the anguish and disappointment of 4 to 24 other people in order to reliably get the best materials for the best enchants which they then sell to us for ridiculous prices.
    Last edited by Zaronis; 07-28-2012 at 11:58 AM. Reason: explaining the question

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    So if doing LFR to learn the mechanics for a normal and/or heroic raid is wrong, then is it also wrong to play the PTR of MoP to learn the mechanics of the upcoming MoP raids? Just sayin'.

    Didn't you just pressure your own raid members to run the dailys everyday?
    Last edited by Deandia; 07-28-2012 at 05:18 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deandia View Post
    So if doing LFR to learn the mechanics for a normal and/or heroic raid is wrong, then is it also wrong to play the PTR of MoP to learn the mechanics of the upcoming MoP raids? Just sayin'.
    He's not really saying it's wrong to learn the basics through LFR, but that the idea of LFR should be an easy mode not a tutorial mode.

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    With my raid team done until MoP drops, I pugged a Dragon Soul last night on a whim, and ended up with a group of people who had never been past Ultraxion on normal before.

    So we get to Spine, and they discover the need to roll Deathwing to clear off extra amalgamations, and one of them remarks, "Wait... so LFR has been teaching me to do this wrong for eight months?"

    Whether that is good or bad, I don't know. Just amused me, and seemed on-topic.

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    Holy cow Lore's a dog Kicker!!

    I am looking for a gauntlet of sorts leading up to Orgrimmar for the final tier of MoP.
    Last edited by Mortauk; 07-28-2012 at 06:49 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9
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    I hear it again and again but nobody really tries to explain WHY its a problem if people bring 20 druids to a raid to stack gear one one toon. If 25 people want to blow their lockout to stack gear on only a few what additional issue does that cause? The overall effort output is the same as if the gear had been distributed to many people.

    The only place this could be an issue is at the top few worldwide leading guilds feeling compelled to run 25 raids to stack the most possible gear early on in the tier, but frankly I think any semblance of sanity was long since abandoned by game design with regards to those people anyway so thats not really a huge change.

  10. #10
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    LFR in its current state is stupid and part of the reason I stopped playing. I agree with Lore that mechanics that take coordination should not be in LFR, but if your standing in Fire for 10 seconds...I think it should kill you. Not something that the two healers that aren't AFK should heal you through. The fact that it takes no effort to complete makes me feel that Blizzard should just save us time and put loot into our bags every now and then.

    I think it should be switched to a 10 man format where dead weight will actually matter and have it tuned around Naxx level. That or make it stop giving Valor Points so I dont feel obligated to do it.

    Made a thread on this awhile back. http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...ve-its-Purpose

  11. #11
    @Kahmal i dont get it, you feel obligated to do it, because it earns you valor points? you can earn more VP by running 2 5 man heroics, which is faster to run anyway. also you left the game because of LFR? you maybe just shouldnt do it. if you're doing LFR you're propably not doing any competetive raiding, and if you're not doing any competetive raiding then gear doesnt matter. and the whole point of an easy mode is to let people breeze through it, if you made it naxx difficulty (which is about where normal mode is now) no one would ever get through it, and thereby defeating the point of LFR.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    I think it should be switched to a 10 man format where dead weight will actually matter
    Every 25 man guild contains and carries their "dead weight" through each and every tier, right? Wrong, it is a common misconception I find, that one is "able to hide" in a 25 man group. We have eyes, meters etc so no, sorry.


    Anyway, what I wanted to comment on is the reputation factions in MoP selling such good gear at revered. I don't have beta access, so I don't know if this is accurate information but according to www.wowdb.com, the items for sale all cost Valor Points. They all seem to be priced at 1750 VP. Now, on the 5.0.4PTR, Valor is capped at 1000 per week as on live, with a maximum of 3000 total which means it will take several weeks for someone to aquire enough VP to get all the items, more due to the cap than actual methods of obtaining VP.

    The other thing I am wondering about these rep factions is that unless their daillies are the sole way of obtaining rep with them, i.e. not through quests normally available in their respective zones whilst levelling in Pandaria (or a tabard?), then getting to revered with each shouldn't be too much of a problem at all. The average player will be pretty close after completing the majority of quests available in each zone.

    So, unless something daft happens like you get no rep as you are questing, then most people will be very close to having all these reputations at revered even before they reach level 90. The only limiting factor will be the valor point cost of each item.

    If anyone has up to date information about these factions, how to get reputation with them and the cost of the items available on them, I would be very interested to know, because a race to get 4 reputations to revered through questing and daillies in order to get items that you have to save for weeks for anyway, isn't a very interesting race to me.

  13. #13
    I can think of a few reasons why they don't change the loot system. One is it is a proven fact that players will continue to play and pay subs if they don't. Not to mention the longer they can keep you chasing the carrot on the stick of loot the less likely it is you will get all you want, unsub, and forget about WoW until the next content patch (a lot of people do that). The second big reason is that it would be an amount of work, not saying a lot or little, but an amount that simply doesn't matter to a vast majority of World of Warcraft players. Lore has said it plenty of times, because it is true, that raiders really don't matter that much in the big picture of WoW. Sure they don't want to piss raiders off for no reason, but it has been proven for 7 years now that they will keep playing, they will keep paying, so they will just have to deal with it.

    I know it isn't that compassionate or what a lot of people that involve themselves with fansites want to hear. Mostly because they tend to involved a little more "hardcore" crowd and that makes it look like "see it is best for everyone". But remember the biggest percentage of WoW players won't hit max level before the next expansion as hard as it is to believe.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawnos View Post
    The only place this could be an issue is at the top few worldwide leading guilds feeling compelled to run 25 raids to stack the most possible gear early on in the tier, but frankly I think any semblance of sanity was long since abandoned by game design with regards to those people anyway so thats not really a huge change.
    The problem is that this wont affect those top guilds, it affects the rest of the pack those who can't have 3-5 alts to farm the raid, the amount of time will factor way to much in the progression. When diablo came out, 4 players where on the streams, but much more were farming their gear, that is how hardcore mind works. In the same way that people feel forced to do LFR, and feel forced to do 10 man in LK, they will feel forced to farm the instance 5 times at a week, if you don't then you aren't doing 'as much as you can' to be Realm First.

    Now, there seems to be a disconnection about what blizzard wants to provide for loot and what players want. Blizzard don't want players to feel bad about loot, that is true, but they don't want you to feel that you are SURE to get it, it beats the purpose for them. What I mean is that from Blizzard's standpoint yeah, many times it won't drop what you want/need and that is how the game works. Maybe it could be fixed a bit if there is a 15~25% chance in 10 man to have a third drop, so the numbers of kills that don't have any useful for the raid are less common and then people won't feel that the system is unfair with them. But a game where the loot is SURE to be useful for the raid isn't called WoW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    LFR in its current state is stupid and part of the reason I stopped playing. I agree with Lore that mechanics that take coordination should not be in LFR, but if your standing in Fire for 10 seconds...I think it should kill you. Not something that the two healers that aren't AFK should heal you through. The fact that it takes no effort to complete makes me feel that Blizzard should just save us time and put loot into our bags every now and then.

    I think it should be switched to a 10 man format where dead weight will actually matter and have it tuned around Naxx level. That or make it stop giving Valor Points so I dont feel obligated to do it.

    Made a thread on this awhile back. http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...ve-its-Purpose
    The problem is that bad healers + bad dps must complete the instance that is its objective, if we lose this from our sight we could start asking something that isn't in the scope of the content.

    About making the instance 10man the problem is queue's and raid composition, Blizzard said it. And I think they are right, 3 Holy palys trying to roll its Forbearance on tank (granted shouldn't be needed unless tank is so bad, but there are so bad tanks out there) or 3 Disc trying to get mana from Rapture. You are giving way to much of the nice things about it, is easy to queue, easy to do, for what? Making a not targeted audience feel better? The truth is that LFR works, you don't have any post from blues regarding the difficulty or quality of this content, because their metrics says: this is a successful feature; maybe from their metrics, and I think so, LFR is their best feature in Cataclysm, don't do anything for me, but there are 10mill players out there.

    Giving or not VP isn't really something that matters coming in MOP (from Blizzard standpoint at least), now that there are many ways to cap them. If you want to do it via LFR because is what is more similar to "the real Raid that I like", that's something that it is in your mind really, ZA/ZG at start (a 30~70 mins instance) were way much harder than LFR will ever be; of course when LFR landed in 4.3 there was no option, LFR was the best way to cap, after you got your 800 from Normal DS.

    Now what I feel is that they give too much prize for LFR or too few for Normal/Heroic Raid. Maybe you could have the same bonus from LFR gear, but you can't mix it up with Normal/Heroic to complete the bonus; Ideally gear could be the same (visuals, not stats) but without bonus or one full tier level or and one and a half tier level of gear behind for LFR; not the half that it is now. So the people that want to do Normal/Heroic won't look at patch notes and say "I need to do this **** LFR each week".

  15. #15
    Now what I feel is that they give too much prize for LFR or too few for Normal/Heroic Raid. Maybe you could have the same bonus from LFR gear, but you can't mix it up with Normal/Heroic to complete the bonus; Ideally gear could be the same (visuals, not stats) but without bonus or one full tier level or and one and a half tier level of gear behind for LFR; not the half that it is now. So the people that want to do Normal/Heroic won't look at patch notes and say "I need to do this **** LFR each week".
    I have no doubt that your feelings are correct. I mean I feel them too, but I have serious doubts anything will happen that removes anything from the "average" player of WoW that loves the ease and instant gratification of LFR. Plus I have my doubts in how many people really hate the mixing of tier pieces. I mean I hated running that thing for the first month plus to achieve my 4 piece more quickly. Then I hated pushing my valor up in it. But the truth is while it might be the easiest and fastest way their are in fact others ways of doing it. I know everyone hates that answer and I myself don't take that advice, but when you have two roads and you hate the one that gets you home 5 mins faster then whose fault is it that you take that road every day, maybe time and spaces fault or maybe the cities fault? Nope, just yours. I mean seriously.. it might not be easy to swallow but if you hate cake don't eat it. It won't make you "bad" it will just make you 5 mins behind a crowd that won't even notice anyway.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobwx77 View Post
    @Kahmal i dont get it, you feel obligated to do it, because it earns you valor points? you can earn more VP by running 2 5 man heroics, which is faster to run anyway. also you left the game because of LFR? you maybe just shouldnt do it. if you're doing LFR you're propably not doing any competetive raiding, and if you're not doing any competetive raiding then gear doesnt matter. and the whole point of an easy mode is to let people breeze through it, if you made it naxx difficulty (which is about where normal mode is now) no one would ever get through it, and thereby defeating the point of LFR.
    I'm not playing atm but when I say Naxx difficulty I'm talking more the tuning. Everything can be tank and spank (which LFR is.) but I feel that if your standing in something you shouldn't for a good amount of time or you should actually die, and most healers in the raid should actually have to heal, and if a majority of your DPS can't beat the tank it should also be a problem. If LFR was 10 man I think it would work better.

    And yes I could get VP else where but I"m still missing out on loot opportunities. I suppose my personal problem was that since I queue'd as a tank there was a chance I didn't have the option of simply going afk like most people do. LFR to is just the dumbest thing I've seen implemented in this game I thought it's purpose was similiar to LFG, convenience, not loot pinata.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaronis View Post
    As a disc priest I second this.

    Just supposing Blizzard does fix the issue with drops that don't benefit the raid... what are Enchanters going to do?
    Edit: The same loot fix implemented for raids would most likely be brought to dungeons as well. A lot more gear would be given to players that it would directly benefit. Currently, Enchanters depend on the anguish and disappointment of 4 to 24 other people in order to reliably get the best materials for the best enchants which they then sell to us for ridiculous prices.
    Right. So let's try and ensure that the remaining 4 to 24 other people continue to get screwed for the benefit of a very small few. -_-

    You do realize that.... so long as we eliminate drops that simply aren't beneficial to the raid (say.... no mail caster gear for a raid sans resto/ele shaman).... you'll still have duplicates. The same pair of boots dropping multiple times (for example), at some point, no one will need them.

    OH.... and you completely miss the point that, once your raid gets geared up and you start making better progress due to acquisition of better gear.... you'll probably get more kills, which would equate to more drops and more potential enchanting materials. You'll get your stuff still, just not ahead of the NEEDS of the team.



    No one tanks in a void.........

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