MoP: A warriors guide to the talent 'tree'
This is version 5.0.3 (15882) July 16 2012 build. I feel pretty comfortable writing about these talents now as I think these are what we are going to get when MoP goes live. I am writing this from a DPS/Arms/raid perspective so I will explain why I selected the talents I did as well. Blizzard has stated that they want all of these choices to be hard to make so I want to try and rationalize out what I can select to get the most gains in a raid setting.
I enjoy playing a DPS warrior for multiple reasons. I enjoy the visceral feel of charging, leaping and intervening around the battlefield and bringing ruin to the enemy. I enjoy out DPSing other warriors because I am both a bit cocky in game and I am pretty sure many other warriors, through experience over the past 8 years of the game, feel the same way. So do these talents I picked touch upon that ‘feeling’ side of mashing the key and wrecking a mob, or trying to produce big numbers and end up on the wowprogress/guild progress top 200 boards? BOTH! While some of these talents are a bit meh for me, I more or less feel like this is a pretty decent build. I think the theory crafters are going to have a bit harder time determining the ‘best’ talents to pick this time around. That’s of course assuming that most of them haven’t quit by now. So why did I choose what I did for these talents? I will run down my selections by level tier. Where motivated to do so I will try and show any advantage where I can.
Level 15: Lets get physical… er mobile.
Juggernaut: I will probably stick with Juggernaut. Generally as DPS, when I charge into a fight (Raid) I am at least on that mob for 12 seconds. When I do this, this generates 10 rage and a nice 1.5 second stun. As we all know… rage is good. I really like having a 12 second CD on this and anything longer feels too long. If I need to initiate on the boss to gain some rage, before peeling to and add with a pool to spend, then 12 secs is great. With Arms gaining rage to spend through white damage, I should be able to peel to a those early adds with 20 rage from boss charge + 3 hits + 20 rage on the add charge. Over a minute, this should be a rage gain advantage. (60 seconds / 12 sec CD = 5 uses per minute = 100 rage per minute).
Double Time: If DT was still setup to double dip on rage generation I would probably take it. I would end up charging an alternate target and then my main target. This would allow you to start a fight with 40 rage just from DT. However that isn’t the case anymore and you only gain from the initial charge. Some people could probably make the argument that you can squeak out a slight bit more CC (1.5 sec stun on initial target), gain 20 rage, then go to your ‘real’ target with another 1.5 second stun. But also as you are traveling from target 1 to 2, you are not gaining rage through white damage or hitting any special attacks to pump the meter up. For PVP this may be a great flag running talent (charge to enemy->charge to enemy->Heroic leap->Intervene ally) but for PVE I don’t think I will be using it. In the end you are on a 20 second CD with 20 rage gained. Rage loss (non-gains) compared to Jug. (60 seconds / 20 second CD = 3 rage gains over a minutes = 60 rage).
Warbringer: I see this mainly being used in PVP. However if a raider can live with a 20 second CD on charge, and most of us probably could, then maybe the healers might be a bit happier? The 3 seconds of damage not being dropped on a tank every 20 seconds might add up over a night of raiding. (60 seconds / 20 second CD = 3 rage gains over a minutes = 60 rage).
*The rage generations listed in these talents are probably optimal, if not slightly unobtainable. Travel time between mobs with the 8 yard minimum distance, the 2 GCDs of 2 charges with DT, etc.
Level 30: I want to liveeeeeeeee!
I started off very much so in favor of Impending Victory but I am thinking strongly on Second Wind for PVE now. I would love to hear reasons why Impending Victory or Enraged Regeneration are better for PVE.
Enraged Regeneration: Some people tend to downplay the usefulness of Enraged Regeneration (ER). And I think of it as an ER… patch me up quick to where I am not going to die right now! Maybe in 20 seconds but not right now! In the past I have had pretty good luck keeping myself up for a while by dropping a bloodthrist into Berserker Rage into ER. Yes it has save my butt so many times. So will I be taking this as an Arms warrior on live? Nope, at least not at launch. See Impending Victory. An example: 100K health. Go down to 10K health. Pop ER and you are back to 20K instantly, 30K 5 seconds later… so 5 seconds to gain 20K health. This, as do the other 2, scale up (health per second) as your health pool increases. 1 minute CD.
Second Wind: Again, I feel this is mainly PVP related. However as I have been looking at this one talent over the last hour and talking to several people about it, running some numbers, etc… I am liking it more then I was before for PVE. I could see where a healer may be able to save some mana if you are not in immediate danger of dying. Yes it will probably have situational uses in some fights but all in all I still don’t think this is the best choice on this level tier with the other two talents available to us. Its usually the burst that kills us before a healer gets to us vs an over time. And if it’s an over time then probably more people are dying than just you. This may get better and better as we go along from tier to tier. This may also be great for tanks. I am not sure if this has any type of internal cooldown (I don’t think it does) but this is the way of how I understand the first part to work. ”Passive: Whenever you are below 35% health, you regenerate 30% health per second.” An example: So if I have 100K health, I go below 35% health to 10% health remaining, then I gain at a rate of 3000 (HP x .03) health per second until I reach 35% again. In that same 5 second window as above, I would gain 15K health vs 20K. However, this will continue to tick if you are below that 35% mark. So you won’t have as much burst self heal, but you will probably have more total gains. The second component to this is a rage gain that’s decent.
Impending Victory: You are a warrior! You hit stuff… hopefully hard! Do you want to run away while ER or SW heal you up or do you want to wail on something? This may be more important for Fury to take as a gap filler. Fury seems to be rage starved with the current rage numbers and currently this is a cheap 10 rage attack. But lets look at this as a heal (and it does damage!). ER will give you 20% hit points (HP) over 1 minute. Impending victory will also give you 20% over a minute, but doled out in 10% chunks (instant heal) available every 30 seconds. So there’s not quite as much burst heal as there is with ER, but more than there is with SW. The 2nd part to this is also nice. ”Killing an enemy that yields exp or honor resets the CD of IV and causes your next IV to heal you for 20% of max HP.” As a warrior I have victory rush popping all the time in raids. I would also expect this to be popping often, giving you a potential of many extra IVs over a minute. When in doubt, turn around and hit it!
Level 45: Stop it!
Your choices here are AOE root > AOE snare > AOE spell interrupt. I think all of these are more suited to PVP than PVE, but if you have a lot of runners in a dungeon then maybe you can find some use for a couple of these. I am pretty underwhelmed by this tier of talents. This would probably be one of those tiers that I would ask for something more exciting from Blizzard.
Staggering Shout: For PVE DPS I would probably select this talent. If I am hitting this button I would imagine I am doing so to support the tanks and want to slow (stop) mobs down for them. There may be times this could save a runner from pulling additional packs and causing an overwhelming mob situation. I don't like the 40 second CD but I am guessing this is a PVP balance issue rearing it's ugly head in PVE. This would have been great in BC and Cata starter dungeons but from what I have been in so far (4) the new dungeons are not that challenging.
Piercing Howl: As DPS I don't think I would take this, unless yet again I was supporting a tank. Possibly a tank would need help slowing down adds they are kiting and I would be hitting one of them from behind in an effort to burn them down. Now if I was tanking, I would surely take this. This is a great kiting ability for warriors and it's only going to cost you 10 rage.
Disrupting Shout: An AOE spell interrupt. If this works on bosses then this might be decent for that. I could see all sorts of fun behind had with this in the Alterac Valley BG as people pile into a throne room, but in PVE I expect this to not work against a boss. Am I incorrect in thinking this? If it does work against a boss then this may be decent. If I was on add duty I would have my focus on the boss and look for that particular cast that I was assisting with interrupt duty on. This combined with pummel will give warriors an extra oh $h*T interrupt that many other classes won't have access to as the CDs on these abilities seem to have been increased for many in MoP.
Level 60: Kill it dead!
This tier, along with the level 90, I think will require the most testing. This and the level 90 I anticipate being inaccurate on because I haven't done enough testing or seen enough numbers. I have spent a decent amount of time testing these out so far and but will require a bit more. I was standing still when I grabbed the numbers off the tool tips and had no buffs (I think) to modify numbers. If I were to take a reasonable guess I think that what I am saying could be true. I think the usefulness (see damage done) of each ability will vary based on the number of mobs that you have to attack and the positioning of the mobs.
-For single target I think the most damage can be done in a single attack by Dragon Roar > Bladestorm > Shockwave. However over a minute it may be Shockwave > Dragon Roar > Bladestorm.
-For kiting piles of mobs, possibly a gauntlet event where stuff is always in front of you, and depending on the distance from you... it could be Shockwave > Dragon Roar > Bladestorm.
-If there are piles of mobs all over the place it would probably be Dragon Roar > Bladestorm > Shockwave.
I didn't see a formula in my searching but I possibly didn't look hard enough. I think the formula for Bladstomres looks as follows. You are talking (X mobs) to hit for 120% x Weapon damage x 6 seconds. I had the Skullstealer Greataxe equipped (1488 DPS). I also didn't have any extra buffs on me and wasn't in combat when I took those screen shots of the tool tips.
(X) x ((120 x 1488) x 6 ) =
(X) x 10665 =
Going by tooltips, and a single use, I see 10665 damage to a single unit for Bladestorm VS 10317 for Shockwave VS 27,729 for Dragon Roar.
Now that we have a single target use... how much damage can we do in a minute vs a single mobs?
Bladestorm (1.5 min CD - 6 seconds - no rage): 10665
Shockwave (20 second CD - instant - no rage): 3 x 10317 = 30951
Dragon Roar (1 min CD - instant - no rage): 27729
So it looks like over a minute Shockwave would win. In a single use, I need to push this to try to do this last bit of damage before I die and hopefully help the raid win, looks like dragon roar would win.
Now I think the harder choice comes down to what am I doing, who am I doing it to, and how many of them are there . If you were tanking your choice may be different. If you were kiting mobs as a tank, or just tanking a bunch of adds, I think I would be taking Shockwave. However as a DPS I may not have all the adds in front of me. I think I would take Dragon Roar. This is a 360 degree attack, on a 1 minute CD, and isn't as position dependent as Shockwave.
You need to take into account the amount of DPS you would otherwise be doing if you weren't Bladestorming/Shockwaving/Dragon Roaring. you sacrifice 4 gcds and maybe up to 4 HSs for for a BS, you only sacrifice 1 gcds and maybe an HS
Good point. Taking that into account I would expect Shockwave and Dragon Roar to be even better then. Since there is no rage cost associated with them, then the optimal time would also be probably to use these after burning off some extra rage and nothing else is available (better) to push.
Originally Posted by Tengenstein
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