Okay, re: the 13:37 question: I think this guy worded this question very poorly, because for me it's not about whether paragon did it without the debuff, it's if I got it without the debuff before blizzard blanket nerfed everything. The problem becomes I can't raid 40 hours a week for the first 3 weeks like they do. So it takes me longer weeks wise, but not necessarily total hours in the instance. Now when I finally do kill those bosses, I will probably have a higher item level anyone from the first N bosses that we've HAD to re-farm (though I guess with instance extended lockouts not necessarily) and especially with how crazy well ilevel is going to scale... If we're still progressing and pushing to clear the content as fast as possible (be it for recruitment reasons or competition reasons, etc.) then we're still not going to turn the debuff off until we got the kill. Then if we DO go back and get the achievement, we could just farm the bosses until we outgear it and then the gear we got might even be BETTER than the 5% or 10% nerfs...
Killing the bosses at a 0% nerf but with better gear is technically LESS prestigious than killing a boss at 5% but with worse gear. But there's no achievement for the 5% buff, even if we were maybe 1 or 2 weeks off and blizz dropped the arbitrary blanket nerf bat on us.
This is why I feel like the achievement is simply vacuous nerd points unless you manage to do it pre-nerf, in which case you're just giving nerd points to the people who would have gotten it anyways. And sure it gives you something to do, okay fine so you farm up gear, decide to do it without the nerf 1 week and it's sorta hard again because it's like the 10% nerf instead of a 30% nerf... you finish it up in that week, MAYBE 2, then what do you do?
This is a patch, not a solution, imo. It feels like bad and more specific LAZY game design. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If we're stuck with it we're stuck with it, but I am just FIRMLY against blanket instance wide nerfs to heroic content.
Here's another thing: If there's a specific nerf to a boss, it honestly feels less like failure than a blanket zone-wide buff. The zone-wide buff feels like blizzard is playing to the least common denominator and we just got caught in the cross fire, targeted boss-specific nerfs feel more like "okay, so... apparently that WAS a really hard part that we got stuck on, now it will be less of a pain." Like... it feels good to know that you weren't just derping on something, that it really WAS hard, so hard it needed a specific nerf for more than just the few elite guilds to kill it. Targeted nerfs just FEEL like they hurt the ego less.
"If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson
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