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Thread: The Weekly Marmot - Why the BMAH Worries Me

  1. #41
    I know it functions as a gold sink, it just doesn't seem like a very good one.
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  2. #42
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    here is an idea for a gold sink. reset gold to a set even amount for everyone when an xpac comes out like pve and pvp.

  3. #43
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    Remember this isn't JUST about gold sink ... it sounds like they are trying to create a contested and interesting place for both factions to squabble over (kind of like the individual gobln towns were supposed to be back in vanilla). I sincerely hope they pull it off and make an interesting enough place to encourage this (BMAH won't be enough, will have to be some other unique and important vendors there as well).
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauragnome View Post
    Which in turn is derived from the latin "ad suavis".

    'cause knowledge is power!
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leucifer View Post

    Inflation doesn't merely relate to the availability of gold in the game, but to the rise in the general level of prices of items/services in any economy. It's a relationship between what a unit of money and the good that can be acquired.
    I understand inflation, but it really doesn't exist in the game in an economically destructive sense, if it exists at all. Inflation becomes harmful if the cost of goods and services in an ecomony out pace the population's buying power. I see none of that on my server, in fact, what I see is pretty much of a healthy free market.

    For example, when a patch drops, the demand for goods (forget serivces, 10-20g tip has remained pretty standard for the 4 or 5 years I've been playing) sky rockets and prices take off - Cardinal Rubies 3,500g - 5,000g; BoE drops 25k - 30k; VP gear 5,000 - 7,500g, stack of elementium ore 100g - now that the patch is mature, and people have geared up Cardinal Ruby 800g, stack of elementium ore 35g, vp boots 1,000g; boe drops 1,000 - 2,500g. And things like herbs and fish go up and down based on who's been farming what; sometimes a stack of Cinderbloom will be 90g and sometimes 20g and so it goes.

    Sure things cost more, but gold is much easier to get so the price rise seems to be in line with earning power. What I think most people miss is that there is no gold in the system that needs to be taken out of the system because there is no central authority controling the system, the gold just appears. It's not like Blizz sells debt or buys debt to regualte the amount of money in the system - the gold just appears.

    I agree with Lore people are more likely to make gold to save up for that thing they really really want on the BMAH and if enough people do that it will have a deflationary effect as buyers dry up and become savers, then commodity prices have to come down to draw out buyers.

    All told, I think the BMAH will be a novelty that will have no effect whatsoever on server economies. The biggest effect will be the troll factor since they'll be in a pvp area - get on your biggest drake, get flagged, sit over the auctioneer and watch all hell break loose.

  6. #46
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    It should be a decent goldsink. I'm not sure exactly what problem they are trying to fix though that needs a gold sink. If the idea is that people get temporarily priced out of markets for 'necessary goods' as a result of waves of cash flows from people hording gold then it might help by reducing some of those hordes. If the idea is that people are systematically priced out of the market for such goods then I'm not sure what could even cause that - either gold is being duplicated illegally and dumped into the market or there is sustained lack of gatherers driving up the price of basic commodities. If its the latter market forces can be expected to fix the problem (hey some of you take a gathering profession if you don't have enough gold for enchants) unless people have just decided en masse that gathering is too boring.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawnos View Post
    I'm not sure exactly what problem they are trying to fix though that needs a gold sink.
    I think it's mainly a problem for new players. I recently leveled a character on a new server without the benefit of heirlooms or seed money and my experience was that I simply could not afford to buy stuff from the AH. Glyphs are the worst offender, but even cheap gems or lowbie blues were too expensive to bother with.

    Your options are to suck it up until the level cap (so much for that fancy mace or those legs you got leveling through Underbog) or spend time gathering to earn gold instead of questing (hooray! skinning bears in darkshore!).

    I toughed it out because you can get by without that stuff, but it's fair to ask what's the point of giving people the ability to use glyphs if they can't afford them for 75 levels.

  8. #48
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    I also think you'll see an influx of money due to all the other things you can do. I think they're expecting more gold to be in circulation. I think it's also to GET people to do more things (to possibly save up for BMAH stuff) so that people stick around the game more. But doing that results in more money in circulation. Do I care about the BMAH? Not really, I only get enough gold to sustain my raiding habit then stop worrying about money after that. Who knows... this might encourage me to spend more time trying to get money.

    You know what they say about economists though: There's two kinds of economists, micro economists and macro economists. The difference being that micro economists are people who are wrong about specific things and macro economists are people who are wrong about things in general.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    You know what they say about economists though: That they are right 150% of the time, they did predict the last 7 of 3 economic disasters.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    I understand inflation, but it really doesn't exist in the game in an economically destructive sense, if it exists at all. Inflation becomes harmful if the cost of goods and services in an ecomony out pace the population's buying power. I see none of that on my server, in fact, what I see is pretty much of a healthy free market.

    For example, when a patch drops, the demand for goods (forget serivces, 10-20g tip has remained pretty standard for the 4 or 5 years I've been playing) sky rockets and prices take off - Cardinal Rubies 3,500g - 5,000g; BoE drops 25k - 30k; VP gear 5,000 - 7,500g, stack of elementium ore 100g - now that the patch is mature, and people have geared up Cardinal Ruby 800g, stack of elementium ore 35g, vp boots 1,000g; boe drops 1,000 - 2,500g. And things like herbs and fish go up and down based on who's been farming what; sometimes a stack of Cinderbloom will be 90g and sometimes 20g and so it goes.
    Not all servers are like this. I'm still seeing BoE drops for 20-30k, Epic gems are still running 2k for primary stats, etc. Some "markets" are not "leveling out".
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leucifer View Post
    Not all servers are like this. I'm still seeing BoE drops for 20-30k, Epic gems are still running 2k for primary stats, etc. Some "markets" are not "leveling out".
    Damn, that's outrageous at this point in the expansion; I haven't seen those prices in months on either of my servers. I think most of people who are taking alts to 85 my server (it's pretty dead these days) aren't willing to spend that kind of gold to gear up a toon for a few months of raiding. I know my 85 horde DK on Shardris isn't going to be geared out until MoP; running the original Cata heroics just isn't something I want to do in quest greens and blues.

    Goldwise I do what Agg does, make enough gold to feed my raiding habit on 9 toons and keep a cushion in my personal guild bank, for a rainey day.

    Will the BMAH force the harcore progession raiders to spend a ton of gold for BiS equipment? Kind of like some guilds were requiring players to buy all epic gems at the top of the market? Kind of nasty side effect of the BMAH.

  12. #52
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    I like the idea just not current implimentation - TCG loot is ideal for BMAH as it allows access to cool little items for those that don't play or want to sink cash chasing the rare cards. Mounts, I am really dubious about as it seems to give the message rather than go play old content just farm some gold - although drop rate will be a big factor in this. Heroic gear - I am not keen on, not because it effects me but because it removes the reward from trying harder content. I personally would actually like to see new art on heroic gear, it was kinda cool to be able to spot the progression focused raiders - rather everyone one in the same just recoloured.

    As for the economic factors, well the economy in wow is a mess. Lots of incoming gold very little in the way of effective sinks, especially for those that want to play the auction house. If anything I can see this having a negative effect - as the main AH traders will probably want more gold so will try inflate prices, I know supply and demand will moderate this but considering the inflation of prices at the start of Cata on my servers it seems highly likely. Removal of the Daily cap may have an effect on the overall equation - given if you have free time you could farm a lot of gold from running them on multiple characters. If they believe there is an economic issue within the game they should follow EVEs example and bring in an economist to sort the whole system.

    In short nice idea but it feels half baked - atleast to those without access to Blizzards master plan.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    Damn, that's outrageous at this point in the expansion; I haven't seen those prices in months on either of my servers.
    I have on one of my servers, which is not in a healthly state horde side - which does raise the point that BMAH could have varying effects dependant server and possibly even faction.

  14. #54
    Heroic gear - I am not keen on, not because it effects me but because it removes the reward from trying harder content.
    And how does it do that, exactly?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    And how does it do that, exactly?
    Because it allows an easier path to the same result, therefor removing incentive as well as that gooey feeling of getting a reward for your efforts. It's similar to the Valor-for-Tier system, where doing 'simple' heroics nets you the iconic gear of what raiders work for. Blizzard argued at the start of Dragon Soul that certain rewards (even if just aestethic) should only be raiding rewards and heroic farming should not be allowing you to net 3/5 of your set, yet the very next content patch they are going to put even HEROIC gear available for gold purchases?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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  16. #56
    Because it allows an easier path to the same result,
    Wow, same result, eh? So you get full heroic raid loot, achievements, titles, mounts, and the accomplishment of having cleared the content, all from the BMAH? And everyone gets that?

    That's weird, my information must be wrong.

  17. #57
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    Removes was putting it too strongly, but it does diminish the effect although not as much as going to recoloured art did.

    I was trying to make the point let heroic gear be for heroic raiders - as Lore said, provide other rewards for this.

    Although I am not sure why someone not attempting heroic raids needs heroic gear.

    I personally don't mind I do normal raids as that is what fits with me and my guild, if we decide to go for heroics seriously (unlikely as not all raiders are interested in that) it still wouldn't bother me as I would do it for the challenge. Although I do think that the ulduar model of hard modes was superior as an aside. The issue is that it risks driving heroic raiders away - and that is not healthy for the game as a whole, just the same as driving any significant proportion of the player base away would be bad. People play WOW for a whole raft of reasons, and therefore how players percieve changes is as/if not more important than the effect of those changes as it can drive masses away from the game.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampStanley View Post
    I think it's mainly a problem for new players. I recently leveled a character on a new server without the benefit of heirlooms or seed money and my experience was that I simply could not afford to buy stuff from the AH. Glyphs are the worst offender, but even cheap gems or lowbie blues were too expensive to bother with.

    Your options are to suck it up until the level cap (so much for that fancy mace or those legs you got leveling through Underbog) or spend time gathering to earn gold instead of questing (hooray! skinning bears in darkshore!).

    I toughed it out because you can get by without that stuff, but it's fair to ask what's the point of giving people the ability to use glyphs if they can't afford them for 75 levels.
    Some potential fixes there. If leveling gold is the issue simply increasing quest/random lowlevel dungeon rewards would fix the problem and not really cause too many other problems - the amount of gold generated from low level quests is small enough that you aren't going to substantially warp the economic system by increasing (as you would if you were to make some substantial change to the gold rewards at 85). The glyph problem is two pretty specific problems one of which is stupid. Right now the glyph market is underserved in large part because many of the patterns are not rationally obtainable since the glyph books still only drop in wotlk. Thats just plain dumb and should have been fixed ages ago. THe other is less simple since its an integral part of the profession but the sheer magntitude of the organization required to maintain a glyphseller is a serious deterrent to entering the market. I have a scribe with all of the patterns but I don't bother to play that market because its just too much work (I did sell glyphs in wotlk so I know how much of a hassle it is). Not sure how or if its a good idea to 'fix' that issue but I'm not sure its that big a deal at least on most servers.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagz View Post
    I like the idea just not current implimentation - TCG loot is ideal for BMAH as it allows access to cool little items for those that don't play or want to sink cash chasing the rare cards. Mounts, I am really dubious about as it seems to give the message rather than go play old content just farm some gold - although drop rate will be a big factor in this .
    I would imagine people who had spent the rl money or invested their gold in the TCG mounts would tend to disagree.

    I really disagree with the second, as I think circumventing the incredible boredom of old content farm ad nauseam for rare drop mounts is a great use of the BMAH. I would agree with Lore that overall playing the AH is less difficult than raiding, but I also can't see how anyone could claim that rolling high and managing to catch a pug with a small enough number of carries in the group to plow through old content you radically overgear (i.e. the current method for obtaining old content rare mounts) could be seen as requiring the same type of skill as playing the AH.

  20. #60
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    The presence of the BMAH will only have a negative effect on anybody's game experience if they allow it to.

    For those of you who see this as the tempest in a teacup that it is, you win.

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