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Thread: Legendary - Gone Too Far

  1. #21
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    I have to admit that I think Gary is ruining Legendary recently. I used to enjoy watching it but I am now being put off of it more and more.
    He seems to not know the difference between making a show entertaining/funny and trolling his own show so much that it takes away from some of the content in the show.

    I think he needs to take a step back, watch one of the episodes from a viewer point of view and just chill out with the trolling.

  2. #22
    Really? Angry over a BMAH?

    If you honestly think that Joe Average is gonna get any more relevant gear from the BMAH than he got from things like crafting, Raid drop BoE's, Molten Front, etc...you're seriously just being Chicken Little.

  3. #23
    Do you people know how much time will be needed to farm 400-500k for ONE item?

    In Cata I made over 6 mills gold... I invested gazillion more hours in that than into clearing 8/8 HC DS, which was semi faceroll.

    Those very same guilds that are selling boosts and items to rich people will be ones who will use accumulated gold to boost their own progression in each new tier.

    1-2 items a day won't make any item common.
    Last edited by tunaktunak-kazzak; 06-16-2012 at 08:41 AM.

  4. #24
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    Really? Angry over a BMAH?

    If you honestly think that Joe Average is gonna get any more relevant gear from the BMAH than he got from things like crafting, Raid drop BoE's, Molten Front, etc...you're seriously just being Chicken Little.
    The BMAH is most definitely there to leech money out of the economy. The WOW economy is ridiculously inflated right now, and that *is* a problem. It means new players simply can't even get started with things like leveling professions, buying glyphs, or even enchanting/gemming their gear. The BMAH is the ultimate gold sink, basically. There are folks who play WOW just to make lots and lots of gold, and that's fine, and can be a whole lot of fun.

    The BMAH works fine if the rewards are rare pets and other random stuff. But not raid achievement mounts or raid loot. That crosses the line, and Lore is totally correct. Part of the attraction of raiding is your character becomes very powerful and has access to gear few other players can match. I've been totally supportive of the badge system and other gear resets they've put in the game, but there needs to be heroic rewards for heroic raiding. No heroic gear or raid achievement mounts on the BMAH.

    You can't craft heroic gear.
    You can't get heroic gear from the Molten Front.
    You can't get heroic gear from valor points.

    You can only get it from heroic bosses, and it should stay that way.

    Also, an omni-class legendary is just going to be a huge pain in the neck, causing drama right and left. That's not fun. Dump legendaries.

    As I said, I'm totally for making raiding more accessible, but that should just mean that everyone is allowed to start from the same starting line, not hit the finish line at the same time.

    1-2 items a day won't make any item common.
    They shouldn't be there at all.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knighterrant81 View Post
    They shouldn't be there at all.
    This a hundred times, as far as I'm concerned, it's not about if someone can get a full set of heroic gear, it's that blizzard are giving people the option to buy items that have otherwise only been earned by doing the hardest pve content around.

    That sentence alone should be enough, the very principle of "buying the best" is just flat out against everything I've "learned" over the years of playing wow, you can't buy High Warlord titles, you can't buy realm firsts, you can't buy gladiator drakes, top end pvp gear etc. Anyone not raiding, doesn't need BIS pve gear. Anyone raiding, I struggle to see as not being disgusted by the idea of BIS items up for sale and would rather just kill the boss. If blizzard insist on selling gear on the BMAH, which I wish they'd just scrap after what I've seen, then why not sell normal level gear that raiders give zero fucks about? I also don't see adding it in post-25% nerf as much better, if it's nerfed that much, the person after it can just go and kill the bosses / deal with RNG just like everyone else.

    As Lore said on legendary, I've been really happy about everything I've seen in MOP, except what they're doing to raid content. IT really is raiders that seem to be getting the crappy end of the stick.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    I have to admit that I think Gary is ruining Legendary recently. I used to enjoy watching it but I am now being put off of it more and more.
    He seems to not know the difference between making a show entertaining/funny and trolling his own show so much that it takes away from some of the content in the show.

    I think he needs to take a step back, watch one of the episodes from a viewer point of view and just chill out with the trolling.
    Really have to agree with this

  7. #27
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    The way i look at it, they're making raiding too easy, and having a lot of bosses drop the same loot. Back in BC, it was awesome having to do Kara/Gruuls/tk etc to get gear, and the raids were actually interesting. Mind you, in BC I never got past tk, but in wrath and cata, I've been in end tier content as much as possible. Wrath was interesting, and while I saw one or two dks with legendaries, it was cool to progress through ICC. This LFR crap they made, while making it easier to gear up, just provides a whole bunch of drama especially when you get in a group where people do 8-9k dps in full 378+ gear. Maybe its because I'm used to "hardcore" raiding, but I find it annoying as fuck when you wipe in LFR. I mean shit, I have 2 85s (one leveled when cata came out, the other with a scroll) and they both got geared for DS within a matter of days. You can literally farm heroics for a couple hours and have 3 tier pieces, plus an assortment of non tier 378s, plus whatever drops out of the hots. Its so unbelievably easy now days that its mind boggling. I miss when you had to actually buy food, make your own flasks, etc. Although, it is pretty neat with the feasts and cauldrons and such.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  8. #28
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    Yes, thank you for putting it out there Lore! The guy who wants the raid gear should get his ass in a raid and actually put some effort into getting it.., it have definitely gone to far if this is what their releasing!
    I honestly hope your gonna be more brutally open and honest in your future releases of these programs instead of always trying to be politically correct..!

    I know in your previous Pst you mentioned how working the AH required some effort, but that's total horses*** (speaking from a normal functioning persons view with an iq over 5)

    If it'll be possible to buy BiS items from the BmaH, that'll be the nail for me as a raider (and a lot of others I assume).., and more then likely show that the whole "seeing the content" comment about letting people down end-expac raid bosses with no consequences on mechanics was always tied into free casual gear, which then ends up being BiS gear and eliminating the incentive for actual raiding.

  9. #29
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    So I thought of a name for the new pvp where you pass around the four artifacts:

    Hutt Potato!

    .... lol yah, thats all i had to say....

  10. #30
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    I want to bring some 'rough' statistics into this.

    According to WarcraftRealms there are 145796 level 85's.
    241 US Servers, is roughly around 600 people per realm. Cool, that's awesome.
    Now from my knowledge (Please correct me if I'm wrong), an auction lasts 3 days, 10 auctions roughly per cycle.
    From this, there will be 100 auctions per month. A tier will last 4-5 months, that's 400-500 auctions.
    I want to say we can assume 1-2 items per cycle will be heroic tier items, that's only 40-50 of them being available through that period. That's not..alot. For your specific class, 3-4 items. Barely an upgrade.

    Edit: Just saw MMO SS of it, could possible be 4 items. 80-100 per tier - 6-8 items over the tier possibly available for your class.. I am hoping some will be transmog gear though.

    As I said, I just thought of this up since personally it doesn't seem a huge impact. I'm pro this, mostly because there's no gold sink currently, I'm an AH freak and I do some heroic tier (4/8 before boredom break).

    What's your opinion on this?

    Also it's in a PvP zone, going to be fun trying to lock this down. I am envisioning some amazing guild vs guild fights for BMAH control.

    Also Lore, please tell Gary to calm down. I used to love legendary, I watched this show for the first time in about half a year... I'm quite disappointed...
    Last edited by Schnfsh; 06-16-2012 at 07:04 PM.

  11. #31
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    I want to bring some 'rough' statistics into this.

    According to WarcraftRealms there are 145796 level 85's.
    241 US Servers, is roughly around 600 people per realm. Cool, that's awesome.
    Now from my knowledge (Please correct me if I'm wrong), an auction lasts 3 days, 10 auctions roughly per cycle.
    From this, there will be 100 auctions per month. A tier will last 4-5 months, that's 400-500 auctions.
    I want to say we can assume 1-2 items per cycle will be heroic tier items, that's only 40-50 of them being available through that period. That's not..alot. For your specific class, 3-4 items. Barely an upgrade.

    Edit: Just saw MMO SS of it, could possible be 4 items. 80-100 per tier - 6-8 items over the tier possibly available for your class.. I am hoping some will be transmog gear though.

    As I said, I just thought of this up since personally it doesn't seem a huge impact. I'm pro this, mostly because there's no gold sink currently, I'm an AH freak and I do some heroic tier (4/8 before boredom break).

    What's your opinion on this?

    Also it's in a PvP zone, going to be fun trying to lock this down. I am envisioning some amazing guild vs guild fights for BMAH control.

    Also Lore, please tell Gary to calm down. I used to love legendary, I watched this show for the first time in about half a year... I'm quite disappointed...
    It isn't about the impact this gear will have. It depends on how available it is (you're making a lot of assumptions in your post about this, by the way), but it is likely this will have little to no effect on progression.

    The problem is, a player gains access to THE BEST gear from raiding by doing an activity that is not raiding. If the gear was rare drops from normal modes, that would be okay. But this is the best gear you can possibly get, just being bought for gold.

    The same would go for PVP gear. If you could buy the current season's Conquest point gear, that'd probably be okay too. But buying high rating items from the current season? No way. That would be unfair to the PVPers.

    WOW works because a) it is accessible and b) because there are still rewards out there that are only available once you've completed the biggest challenges. Everyone has a roughly equal shot but there are still things out there that only a few players will ever get (at least right away, the new nerf system is probably giving out heroic gear a little too easily right now).

  12. #32
    Eh, by the time someone actually manages to get a raid item from the BMAH, you'll have sharded 19 of them and will be in saying in vent how you're sick of seeing them drop.

    Unless there's some system in place to force certain types of auctions, there's a non-trivial chance that you won't even see a raid item show up within a particular tier. I can't imagine how this is such a big deal to folks. Even on principle I can't see it, but then I didn't raid for gear so much as accomplishment. =O

  13. #33
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    According to WarcraftRealms there are 145796 level 85's.
    I am very certain that there are more than 150k level 85s.

  14. #34
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    Eh, by the time someone actually manages to get a raid item from the BMAH, you'll have sharded 19 of them and will be in saying in vent how you're sick of seeing them drop.
    Or they could show up the first day of raiding, we don't really know, and any conclusions we make about the rate they show up on the BMAH at this point is pure conjecture.

    I can't imagine how this is such a big deal to folks. Even on principle I can't see it, but then I didn't raid for gear so much as accomplishment. =O
    I think Lore put it really well on his PST about this. There should be exclusive rewards for people who participate in different versions of the endgame. Anyone can get the conquest point gear, but only top PVPers will get the high rating gear in the current season. Anyone can get normal mode gear, but only heroic mode raiders should get heroic mode gear. Anyone should be able to make some decent cash on the AH, but only truly dedicated goblins should be able to get...something. Allowing the goblins to pick up the raider's top gear cheapens the raiders accomplishment more quickly than it already is cheapened by raid nerfs.

    You should try to put yourself in others footing and see how people could be upset by this. Perhaps you don't care about gear (although I doubt this is truly the case, since you play WOW). When our guild is first starting to do heroic modes, our progression on WOWprogress is definitely more on my mind than gear drops (although those are nice and do help with progression). But gaining access to powerful drops is a powerful incentive, even to "progression focused" folks like myself. There is no need to cheapen the accomplishment of raiding by allowing people to simply buy the same gear they worked hard to earn.

    It is similar to the argument folks used to make against the justice/valor system - "only hardcore raiders should get epics!" What those folks didn't see was that the old system was unfairly holding new players/new raiders back (and the guilds that were forced to recruit them) by forcing them to run old content. The gear resets every patch allow everyone to get to the same starting line.

    But all that should guarantee is everyone is on the same starting line every tier. There still needs to be something to work for, something that you get a tangible reward for every time you log in (the relative power of that gear and its effect on the performance of your character). WOW - heck, video games, - work because of that tangible, visceral reward of player power. And having people already running around in gear they bought off the BMAH just stomps all over that.
    Last edited by Knighterrant81; 06-17-2012 at 10:39 AM.

  15. #35
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    I think I have figured out why Blizzard can read Lore and Mike B's mind. Gary has slowly but surely dumbed down the show so that its to simple to not understand. Bring back Mike S or Skippy or anyone else who cares more about trying to be informative and not trying to be a really bad late night talk show host.

  16. #36
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    I think they should have free for all pvp servers where you can kill members of your own faction.

  17. #37
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    Been playing a lot of D3 and in that game legendaries aren't the best in slot items. Maybe they won't be the bis for any class but getting them would be a lot of work and you'd have something to show off that you really worked for.

  18. #38
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    I do know that WarcraftRealms isn't accurate, but I want to go off some numbers rather than pure estimations. What I wanted to know is your opinion on whether it would be a noticeable impact.

    From a goblins perspective, progression past normal isn't a focus for me. I wouldn't spend 200k+ for an upgrade which is small in my mind. Especially with guilds having a far larger gross than me, it just wouldn't be beneficial to compete. Wouldn't it be a beneficial from a guilds perspective? Or even helping to gear up new recruits.

    Based on my assumptions, which has the same validity we're basing our statements off. You wouldn't see many people running around with gear from the RMAH. I would be against heroic gear or major pieces (Set/Trinkets/Weapons) at the beginning of a tier, but half way through ; sure. I know the concept of it isn't good but will it actually affect you? I know you will have a strong set of heroic gear, whereas if I purchased it off the BMAH.. Maybe one or two pieces. You will still stand out.

  19. #39
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    From a goblins perspective, progression past normal isn't a focus for me. I wouldn't spend 200k+ for an upgrade which is small in my mind. Especially with guilds having a far larger gross than me, it just wouldn't be beneficial to compete. Wouldn't it be a beneficial from a guilds perspective? Or even helping to gear up new recruits.
    I'm not really understanding what you are trying to say here. Yes, progression probably isn't a focus if you are focused on the AH (just like most raiders don't have the time to *really* play the AH). I don't know how guilds are competing against you - are you saying for purchases during progression? I suppose, although that's not really what I have a problem with it. Depending on when and how many items go up, it might be beneficial, but if we're talking 200k+ range per item a guild isn't going to be able to afford all that many upgrades. Guild rep and guild perks hurt recruiting far more than being able to buy a few upgrades would help.

    Based on my assumptions, which has the same validity we're basing our statements off. You wouldn't see many people running around with gear from the RMAH.


    That's not the point. The point is that *anyone*, even theoretically, could buy a piece of heroic gear that they didn't earn through raiding. That's unacceptable.

    I would be against heroic gear or major pieces (Set/Trinkets/Weapons) at the beginning of a tier, but half way through ; sure.
    The nerfs to HMs are a little odd (and they came a little too fast in DS) but they do the job of keeping raiding interest high and getting more guilds to complete the entire tier instead of just quitting halfway through because they hit a roadblock. Progression is all well and good, but there's nothing like the adrenaline rush of getting a rare piece off the boss you've been working on; a little trophy for all the work you've put in. I know for our guild that motivation has helped keep the roster full for long enough to complete the tier.

    I know the concept of it isn't good but will it actually affect you?
    The idea of it will affect motivation, in a thousand little different ways. Seeing HM gear drop, seeing gear on other characters on the armory, seeing the heroic recolor walking around in SW/Org, seeing the gear in arenas and RBGs, or seeing a new recruit walk in with the item but not the kill. Maybe that's overstating it, but it doesn't have to have a direct effect on progression to be wrong.

    I know you will have a strong set of heroic gear, whereas if I purchased it off the BMAH. Maybe one or two pieces. You will still stand out.
    This is like the VP argument. VP/JP works because it levels the playing field. But for VP/JP to work, there needs to be stuff that you can only get from raiding. "Well I have a full set" doesn't cut it.

    Lets turn it around: if your primary focus in endgame is the AH, why do you need heroic items?

    As lore said, I'm all for special rewards for playing the AH well. Heck, just having that much *gold* in your banks, and having nearly endless reserves of mats for pretty much anything you want is a pretty nice reward in and of itself. The BMAH is basically the endgame rewards for goblins...so leave it at that. Heroic PVE gear for HM raiders, high rating PVP gear for PVP players, and the ability to give the finger to the RNG when it comes to rare drop pets, mounts, BOEs, (and the ability to buy up most of Azeroth if you feel like it) and the like for the AH goblins.

    There should be stuff you can show off in game that shows your achievements - that has to be stuff no one else can get, at least not while it is current. In support of that, I'd love to see mounts and pets or even transmog items that only ever appear on the AH. But not heroic raid gear. The line on gear has gotten pretty thin in the past few years, and this is where I would draw it.

  20. #40
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    AH endgame sets: 2pc 10%chance to loot 5% more gold from mobs, 4pc you have a a 10% chance not to pay commision on your auction sales. Looks like Mr. Monopoly.

    I have to echo Lore's opinion, letting people buy Bis HC raiding gear just doesn't sit well. How does it add to the community? how does it improve the game? what's the point of this? who does it help? Old content i couldn't care less, current content, why only this tier Blizz are comfortable banning peeps for letting them loot stuff multiple times, but its fine to let people get loot from stuff they haven't even killed?

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