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Thread: PST - Episode 82

  1. #1

    PST - Episode 82



    This week:
    0:16 - Would you still have that same early-expansion stress if only World Bosses were available?
    5:23 - How do you feel about the 100% bonus on crit heals?
    9:52 - Will we be at a disadvantage if we don't have a Monk for MoP raids?
    14:59 - Does the new valor point system create "double heroic" gear sets?
    19:37 - Could we ever see fights with "class call" abilities again?
    22:18 - How do other games affect new features Blizzard adds to WoW?
    26:53 - With all the changes being made in MoP, how can I keep up?
    31:11 - Are powerful racials okay, or should they be made weaker?
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  2. #2
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    I don't know what your problem with prepping gear is, I love picking up a glove token and throwing it on right after I purchase, socket, gem, enchant, tinker, reforge, and transmog it.

  3. #3
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    q1- Coming off of the discussion so far, yeah, I think that having the world bosses would be a good counter-balance. This would also bring a good deal of world pvp and competition for the kill since there would be no legit content yet. For the game, doing this would be good for us.

    q2- I'm in the same boat as you, I have not healed much this xpac but did a great deal of it in the years before. Providing the model can come close to before, yes it is for more of our bread and butter heals. It is devalued because of the unpredictability and no where near as consistent as other throughout-put stats. I know this will get some lashings, but I firmly believe the model was much better with down-ranking, granted we had less stuff to use. A good player knew when, where, and not to use what in nearly all situations. An efficient smart healer I would take any day over someone with huge hps but sketchy on control.

    q3- Shouldn't be at a disadvantage, but the fights will dictate that. Every fight should be doable with a reasonable comp with decent players behind them, no doubt. But some fights are better for some classes than others, yes, and it should stay that way. I miss the days that it really mattered who you brought, it made things feel epic. Not that people shouldn't be comparable, I say that and not equal because we are not in a vacuum. There should always be an "Ideal" make up for each fight specially in the earliest days due to being undergeared, and what is performing the best then. Still they should and will be feasible to do without that ideal, but there is no strict disadvantage either. A great player is fine no matter what the class, as long as that is what is needed. Our first hm blackhorn kill (@10% 10m)was done with 3 melee because we didn't have a choice that week so long ago. Ideal, no but still was able to do so and those that run 10m on that fight understand the woes of us melee on that one.

    q4- In other games, the inflation like this isn't as bad as it is being played as. There is such a huge fixation on ilvl that it blinds people. And no I am not saying this because I'm not geared, my main is 407 and I've not touched a raid since 15%. Sure all of us would love to be able to say we are full "double-heroic" my epeen bounces at that, same as everyone else. This is a gear driven game no matter what.
    But, this model could very well work as the heroic raiders will having something to keep them going in farm times. If we could have a double heroic set right now, I am sure my guild would still be raiding ds now and not playing other games while we wait. There is no reason that it should be limited to just pre-heroic gear. When t15 comes out, us heroic raiders are rarely going to see an upgrade from normal mode anyhow. They could put it to half step between tiers or something, because honestly we would still use some Ht14 until mid t15, hell I still had my 391 domo chest because of shit loot all the way til we had madness.
    The normal mode raider would strive to do more content so even more gear is there. This could help said players make it into heroic raiding. Do I think it should bring it up to equals of a heroic piece, no; you want heroic gear, do heroic content. But I think there should be a stepping stone for those who put the effort in to help the transition and further themselves.
    The lfr/df player would see the most benefit from this. Again I still think it shouldn't take it fully to the next level of content but close. This would bring more players into raiding and remember raiders are still the minority, specially hm raiders. Alts would also fall near here too, this makes for a easier "catch-up".

    q5-class calls are good as long as they can implement good. Not only class, but having a fight from time to time with some random to it isn't bad. NO I do not mean rhyo, that is way too much random. Reacting is good for the brain, and if you can mindlessly plow through a fight then it isn't worth being a fight. Not to be confused with I am meaning gear check fights, as those are needed too.

    q6-I agree, I have no issue with "borrowing" ideas from other games. I pay the company just like you, and myself as the customer want the best quality of life I can get. Do you get mad at a car company for using a good idea from another car? Hell no, you love every minute of it, and pity the fool who doesn't have that feature. Blizzard is just people too, and sometimes ideas don't hit their head fast enough, or maybe they have an idea but are kind of skiddish to use it. Then someone else has that same idea, it works, and they go about making it work here. That is just something that happens in nearly every industry in the world. If ideas didn't get shared/used by other companies then we would still be in colonies, sitting by candle light, under the English...

    q7- Sadly the "average" player would have a culture shock when it happens, but those of us reading this are not the average player. Most probably know how to do the research, but for the everyday "casual" and I hate to use that, I am glad they are doing the what has changed thing.
    I am glad blizzard is realizing things like this, because when I think of this I think of my Mom. Yes strange but just before firelands my mom started playing this game. She wanted to pick up a new hobby with my youngest bro since 1 bro and I no longer live with her. Her sister and bro-in-law had always into mmo's and that is where I got my start in them back in the UO/eq1 days with my aunt and uncle and this was a perfect time to see what the fuss was all about.
    Now she isn't a full on raider, she does lfr/df/pvp often enough and I've dragged her to some raids before as well. But by all means doesn't keep up with the theory-crafting or anything like that it was either all self taught or learned from myself. Little steps like this by blizzard helps out for these kind of players. There will always be some that have never read a forum post, never seen a fansite, or a youtube guide. Blizzard should put some good effort into bridging this gap, even if we don't need it, someone might.

    q8- Racials should be good, there needs to be a line drawn in the sand over how powerful they are. Don't need to be so strong that everyone is forced to roll one, but still in the range. There will always be one that is the theoretical best/worst at least for dps because that can be mathed out. Does that mean every other one is not to be used? Nah, my main is STILL a Tauren DPS DK. Would I benefit more from being a goblin/orc? No doubt. Am I broken? Hell no, I can rank in parses just as easy as any other dk of equal gear. I tank *cough* occasionally now-a-days (I say that because I was forced to tank since eq1 til late wrath) and I pvp often. My racials offer me no dps benefit, but they have helped me survive in some clutch moments. I am quite attached to my rotten cowman.
    You made some comments on about a few priests and racials. Sure a tauren priest would get some snickers in a more serious raid environment, but one of our spriests in FL was a cow, and his warstomp was very welcome on rag. Not that a goblin wouldn't have been better but we still used him well enough. And for undead priests, actually if it was a priest that had been around a long time, that was the best race for ages. Devouring plague started off as an undead priest only ability, then later moved its way into the home of the rest. Not to mention that undead is still a very viable option as pvp, as that is where the racials benefit the most, granted underused. They also have the best casting animations (imo you may vary)which was why my priest/lock has been undead since I made them both on the very first day of wow. Both of them will stay that way too probably the same for my dk staying a cow, and the same as you going back to belf.
    For the next batch of clones, under NO circumstance, do you tell them they are adopted. Lesson learned - July 2007.

  4. #4
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    I think racials are definitely broken right now. Blood Elf racials are OP for healers (on my priest I can get 18%-24% of my mana back on a boss fight depending on the length) which means that if I wanted to play a tauren I would be at a definite disadvantage. Playing a dwarf paladin in arenas is also gimping me because I'm not a human with that imba racial. Some racials are just absurdly better than the other options. Worgen crit basically makes worgen the best dps race for most classes (I think...could definitely be wrong about that though). I play the races I play because I like how they look. I shouldn't feel at a disadvantage for doing so.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seihk View Post
    I think racials are definitely broken right now. Blood Elf racials are OP for healers (on my priest I can get 18%-24% of my mana back on a boss fight depending on the length) which means that if I wanted to play a tauren I would be at a definite disadvantage. Playing a dwarf paladin in arenas is also gimping me because I'm not a human with that imba racial. Some racials are just absurdly better than the other options. Worgen crit basically makes worgen the best dps race for most classes (I think...could definitely be wrong about that though). I play the races I play because I like how they look. I shouldn't feel at a disadvantage for doing so.
    Powerful racials are important, they need to still be in check in the ways of balance though. As it stands every racial is not a game breaker whether or not you have the most ideal one. There needs to not be one so clearly op that everyone needs to have it, and there will be some overlap. Some are better for pvp, pve, tanking, healing, dps etc. If they all was 100% equal, then it would just be the same as pulling a race from a hat.
    Belf get 6% mana every 2 min and that is huge for healers and very good for protadins since there seems to be occasional mana issues this tier with them. Healers can do without it though, mana isn't that much of an issue. Come mop that will change though, plenty of people are going to learn they are not as good as they believe. This racial is one of few that for certain classes not having this is a big gap because of the return gained. Later in the content this becomes less noticeable as gear makes the need for mana lessened.
    Racials such as the goblin/worgen/orc are typically the best for dps, yes, but only in that situation. If you do anything other than just raid as dps, a wrench is thrown into that. The way every class plays now, you actually would still rarely notice a difference between having and not having. In a vacuum they will be stronger sure, but rng is a bigger factor than any racial. Even 2 identical geared toons from say paragon, all things being equal and ideal situation except the racials both are still going to be right neck and neck. And even then would still have to do best 2 out of 3 (or more) and the results would probably surprise you.

    The undead racial change is well needed though, WotF has very little pve use (and no where near as good as it used to be), cannibalism is useless anymore (5 years ago it was amazing), and no dps/tank/heal utility at all. That is a disadvantage though, but the rest of the races was still fair game. I honestly think nearly all the racials should be stronger to make the choices even harder. Not a huge amount, but another % or two as you do not want them being mandatory, but you still want a choice to be made.
    For the next batch of clones, under NO circumstance, do you tell them they are adopted. Lesson learned - July 2007.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neepall View Post
    The undead racial change is well needed though, WotF has very little pve use (and no where near as good as it used to be), cannibalism is useless anymore (5 years ago it was amazing), and no dps/tank/heal utility at all. That is a disadvantage though, but the rest of the races was still fair game. I honestly think nearly all the racials should be stronger to make the choices even harder. Not a huge amount, but another % or two as you do not want them being mandatory, but you still want a choice to be made.
    I plan on having a UD warrior tank my challenge modes without a problem. I feel cannibalism will greatly improve clearing speeds by cutting downtime.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  7. #7
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    How people are throwing a fit over the UD racial is beyond me, I've spent the last few years feeling like I clicked the wrong button on class creation because orcs get a solid 5-10% dps increase and I get a grand total of zero.

    I'd much rather racials provide zero raw damage increase and were all utility, but this change feels better than leaving it alone unless it's a 20% dmg boost.

  8. #8
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    Great episode as always Lore, but I have a bit of a technical question. I don't know if this is on my end but your videos have been very out of sync for me lately, kind of jerky and halting.

    Is this a setting I need to change or something that is different on your or Tankspot's end? I still use WinXP since this computer will just not break and force me to get Win7, so I'm stuck with IE8. I've tried Chrome and don't like it, I haven't tried Firefox yet though so if it's a browser issue I could be tempted to give that one a try.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by leethaxor View Post
    I plan on having a UD warrior tank my challenge modes without a problem. I feel cannibalism will greatly improve clearing speeds by cutting downtime.
    This really wouldn't solve that issue. If you are going for speed clears this would actually slow you down. Stopping to use cannibalism creates downtime, and you would want to be constantly in motion. That is where the warrior tank shines, and
    either a goblin, tauren, or orc would take the most advantage for your purposed situation. Goblin for slight more mobility/damage, orc for a bit more damage and reduced stun if there are many of them, or tauren for the ability to take slightly more and another stun.

    Eliminating downtime for the tank would mean healer downtime would need to be reduced. Which in turn means a hpally or rdruid should be used as they are the most efficient healers. This is where you are going to see the biggest factor in down time when coupled with a warrior. That and the dps comp and tank talents would still be a bigger factor over using just that tank for that one certain ability. If the main focus is to clear as fast as possible.
    Last edited by Neepall; 06-10-2012 at 05:40 AM.
    For the next batch of clones, under NO circumstance, do you tell them they are adopted. Lesson learned - July 2007.

  10. #10
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    How are world bosses going to work anyway? I shudder at the thought of non-instanced content and the nightmares that used to cause in Everquest. Given the over the top sociopathic nature of the WoW playerbase as evidenced in LFR I can't imagine how bad a true open world boss could be in WoW depending on its implementation. I'm hoping phasing at least plays a part.

    My guess about the point you were trying to make about racials is that for the majority the advantage they give is unlikely to be fully utilized by the vast majority of raiders. Stoneskin is a very solid extra defensive cooldown for a prot paladin but I end up just macroing it into something where it gets some use but isn't used as effectively as it could be. The reason is that there are just too many freaking buttons as is so I just get what use of it I can. I'm sure there are even more people who just plain don't take advantage of it at all. For most choosing the 'optimal' race isn't as important because they aren't going to take full advantage of the difference anyway.

  11. #11
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    I am so glad that you time stamp your video post Lore. You are just like my wife. You answer some questions in 30 seconds, but keep talking about it for another 5 minutes. Thanks again.

  12. #12
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    Racials should really only give utility. That can still be fun and not affect performance. Racials like Shadowmeld and Cannibalism are interesting additions to your abilities but don't really offer a raw benefit often enough to need balancing (yeah maybe your cannibalism got you a win when you were down to 1v1 in an arena or maybe your shadowmeld got a mage to accidently counterspell the rogue instead of you). I think there are plenty of areas to bring in fun abilities for racials that don't affect the game enough for players like me (min max types) to actually feel guilty playing the character they want to look at.

    This concept of racials needing to be "fun and interesting" isn't as important as a player enjoying what they're looking at. There are plenty of ways to tweak racials so that they don't impact performance.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawnos View Post
    How are world bosses going to work anyway? I shudder at the thought of non-instanced content and the nightmares that used to cause in Everquest. Given the over the top sociopathic nature of the WoW playerbase as evidenced in LFR I can't imagine how bad a true open world boss could be in WoW depending on its implementation. I'm hoping phasing at least plays a part.
    I'm curious about this as well. Azuregos griefing was legendary on my server way back when, and I wonder if my crappy little guild will even get a chance at the world bosses. I doubt we'll have week long respawn times again, but I wonder if camping will be necessary to tag them.

    Say what you will about VOA and BH, but I thought they were a nice way to help get folks some extra VP and maybe a piece of gear, especially during Tier 11 when we had a hard time getting going. At the very least, those bosses were nice warm ups on raid night, or something to kill while waiting for latecomers to arrive.

  14. #14
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    Yeah, I think VoA and BH did wonders for the casual raider (or those of us who like to have something fun to do on the side). I recently transferred to a PvP server so I can get that feeling again in MoP like I did throughout Vanilla and BC. World bosses will be very interesting, to say the least.

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