Prot warrior help?

[Ltranger]

This past week was my first time tanking in DS10. I've been in one other time as a dps on 25 man, but only got to the gunship part before we stopped. Well, long story, other than not knowing the fights well enough, I didn't really tank which was fine by me because I want/need to know how to tank the fights. We went back last night for Spine and Madness, and when we got to Madness, I found that I was having a hard time staying alive. Right now unbuffed, I'm at 95.5% "unhittable." What's bothering me is that on the third platform, (believe it was our last attempt last night) when the elementium bolt shot out, I popped Last Stand, Shield Wall, and Enraged Regeneration, with a combination of health pots and lock candy, yet I still got two shot. I'm not 100%, but I could have had impale on me since I had taunted off our main tank because she got it in the begining, but wouldn't all my CD's still keep me up? I've been trying to match the raid leaders tank, solely based on the fact that he can solo tank DS10 on heroic and well, he knows what he's talking about. (Yes, I am missing a cloak enchant, and a shoulder enchant. I have the money, but I figure I'm going to replace it shortly with either DS reg gear, or LFR gear, so why bother spending 1700g+ on something that's going to get sold to a vendor.) Is there anything I can gem for, or respec/reglyph to improve my survivability?

My warrior : http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Cenarion%20Circle/Ltranger/

Raid leaders Warrior : http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...Circle/Iaemil/

[sifuedition]

Your parry and dodge are out of balance. For a warrior, there is some value in having more parry than dodge because of the talent Hold The Line. However, I believe 5% is too much. I would aim for closer to 1-3%. This may bridge that last gap with being passively covered for ctc as well. Also, change your meta to the 81 stam and 1% block value. Also, not sure I would use pure stam gems until you are ctc cappped. Making some of those mastery+stam would likely cover any ctc you are missing.

As to the third platform, you would want to look in recount/skada/death notes/world of logs and see what actually killed you. The secret to single tanking the fight is the dps killing the mutated corruption prior to the bolt coming out (and getting the second impale). This is also affected by your strategy. If the elementium bolt is being slowed down on the third platform that you kill, then the bolt should be dead before it explodes. If not, your survivability is not the biggest issue. If you are not slowing the bolt on the third platform due to the order you down them, then you need a strat to specifically cover the huge damage from that on the tank while everyone else stacks away from the landing point and the ranged kill it ASAP.

[Theotherone]

What's your platform order?

[sifuedition]

Also, I know you are seeking survivability, but you have several talents for that which are notably week. Blood Craze really does not contribute much at all. I would personally try this and see what you think.

Take the 3 points from Blood Craze
Take the 2 points from Improved Revenge (just doesn't ever work out better than a devestate)
Take the 2 points from Blitz

Now you have 7 points to move.

Finish War Academy - 2
Take Cruelty - 2
Finish Incite - 1
Finish Deep Wounds - 2

This is a more threat centric build. However, your spec and gear is not the reason you have survivability issues. Your reforging and gemming could be optimized a little more for passive ctc, but it's not make or break differences. Work on keeping ctc coverage without wasting any more stats than you have to. From there, survivability will boil down to three things:

1. Ability usage - are you timing your cds correctly and calling for any externals when needed?
2. Strat - are you accounting for all the things you need to in your strat?
3. Healing - are your healers keeping up? Bear in mind, this is also affected by the level of execution of your dps. If they take avoidable damage, your healers may be distracted when you need them focused on you.

[Tengenstein]

Your parry and dodge are out of balance. For a warrior, there is some value in having more parry than dodge because of the talent Hold The Line. However, I believe 5% is too much. I would aim for closer to 1-3%. This may bridge that last gap with being passively covered for ctc as well.

Until you're CTC capped the survivability benefits of Hold the line are overshadowed vastly by having more CTC.

[Geach]

(Yes, I am missing a cloak enchant, and a shoulder enchant. I have the money, but I figure I'm going to replace it shortly with either DS reg gear, or LFR gear, so why bother spending 1700g+ on something that's going to get sold to a vendor.)

I am not a fan of this ideology. But at the very least grab the shoulder enchant. 60-75 gold for 75 more Stamina and 25 more dodge rating is cheap.

As for specs I would go with. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Zc02!kaY!ag!PSkZeddTgQ!ZYVfRjPNM. Reason being is blood craze doesn't proc enough to depend on.

Without seeing logs I am going to guess the platform rotation is green yellow red blue given that it sounds like the bolt is not slowed on the 3rd platform. About the only other thing I could suggest outside of external cool downs is make sure that Demoralizing Shout is up before the impale. External cool downs to use also can still help if you have them. Since the impale happens just before the bolt lands with not much recovery time from the the impale damage.

[sifuedition]

Until you're CTC capped the survivability benefits of Hold the line are overshadowed vastly by having more CTC.

I agree and apoligize if it came across any differently. I was just speculating that changing the pure stam gems plus reforging to get the balance better may achieve ctc.

[Theotherone]

Take the 2 points from Improved Revenge (just doesn't ever work out better than a devestate)

Even with the 2 piece bonus you'd take the points out of Improved Revenge?

[Tengenstein]

with the 2pc bonus Imp rev is worth slightly more than Bloodcraze. I take it becuase with proper revenge timing it can be sliglty more useful, but ultimatly its not a mandatory talent.

[sifuedition]

The math I've seen in theorycrafter threads indicates that with Imp Rev, 2 piece and the glyph, revenge is about the same as a dev. The bubble is meh as far as a shield goes. You are adding complexity for very little return.

A very few threads talked about if we were stam stacking like in ICC and ignoring ctc...those seemed to indicate that if we did that, revenge would be the bee's knees. But who's going to do that over ctc coverage?

[Aggathon]

I take it because otherwise I feel like a 'tard with the revenge glyph in too because THERE'S NO OTHER GLYPH.

[Tengenstein]

The math I've seen in theorycrafter threads indicates that with Imp Rev, 2 piece and the glyph, revenge is about the same as a dev. The bubble is meh as far as a shield goes. You are adding complexity for very little return.

This is all true. in terms of DPS you really need to sim to see which is better Rev or Dev, since both hit about then same but will vary depeinging on weapon ilvl and stam. Rev is particularily usefel on fights where you have rage issues as it lets you get more HSs in. IT really is quite close, and if rev hits are about on parity with Dev hits the 2pc is a nice bonus. I really don't se whats wrong with complicating our rotation, its not hard.

[sifuedition]

I would agree that this can be completely viewed as a preference issue. If you want the complexity or like the trade-off of complexity for minor survivability, then this is a totally viable option.

I am just unsure, especially without logs, of recommending this to someone who is asking for help surviving. They may have their hands full with being aware of timers, cds, etc and not need that complexity.

Edit:
I should probably say at this point, the most fair approach would have been to be as thorough as I could. Since both ways are viable, list them both with the pros/cons and let them choose which applies for them better. Shame on me for attempting to take the "easy" way out =/

1. Spec/glyph for the bubble-bonus but be aware that they still need to focus on the complexities of the fight and not tunnel vision the rotation.

2. Disregard revenge for single target except as a low rage ability and thereby reduce the complexity of the rotation to allow more focus on the fight mechanics at the cost of a minor survivability buff.

[Tengenstein]

on a totally different note, he's using the wrong meta

[Ltranger]

Thanks, I changed up a few things so we'll see how it does come FL and DS.

[Theotherone]

When we first started killing Madness, our warrior tank was basically in FL gear with some H FL pieces and had survivablity issues on third and fourth platform (and we were two tanking at the time). I heal the main run on my Pally with 2 Shammys; what we would do is on the third platform and fourth platforms is Hand of Sac him just before the Impale hits. What we found is that the survivablity issue came from not having the Green Dragon health buff. Also one or both of the Shammys would Riptide then Healing Surge to try to proc the health buff on him. As a Disc priest, I'll Pain Suppress the tank on the third and fourth platform (holy will Guardain Spirit them. Don't know what your healing make up is, but the healers will need to jump on board with damage redcution cooldowns.

I find when I tank this on my warrior, I use the Green Button on platform 1, then Shield Wall on the next platform, then Rallying Cry/Shield Block on next one, then back to Shield Wall on 4th one with Shield Block when the Bolt hits if the mutated isn't down.

I'm assuming you go Green, Red, Blue, Yellow platforms (since I'm not quite sure on the colors; Platform where you spawn, then jump left two, jump one right, jump two right). However, when I reread your post, it appears you're getting a bolt hit on the third platform; you can do it that way, but it's a bit harder dealing with two bolts, instead of two sets of Blisterings.

If I'm telling you anything you already know, then just ignore me. I'd reccomend doing the platforms so you only get one Bolt hitting and that's on the 4th platform. Also, don't blow hero at the start, save it for the Mutated on the 4th platform so you can burn the mutated before the Bolt and have time to pull the raid back to the claw.

Try the order I mention above; that will give you 3 slow Bolts, but Blisterings on the thrid and fourth platforms which need to be single targeted. Pre-nerf I found the raid finder order to be more difficult.

[Ltranger]

The way we've been doing it is first plat form, then we do all of them to the left one by one, then the far right one. We had a few attempts where we got to DW's head, but on the last two or three attempts, we were just not putting out enough dps/heals (It was close to 2am server for me, and even later for some of the other people.). Our heals are usually a mix of a druid, shaman and priest, and I'm fairly certain that the priest is disc, so I'll talk to the raid leader about using CD's for impale. The OT(Technically MT because she out gears me by a fair bit) gets the first impale, then when I taunt, usually the tentacle is down before the 2nd impale, which is why we were getting so far. We don't have any pallies in our raid, which sucks, because coming from being an extremely well geared pally back in Wrath to my warrior which now out gears him, is extremely different. I'm used to having LoH, Ardent Defender, etc, and well, I have 2 damage mitigation buffs aside from my trinket. I think I just need to time my CD's a lot better and it'll be fine.


Another thing, what kind of dps should I be pulling? As prot with full raid buffs, I pull anywhere from 14-20k depending on how much I'm getting hit (rage starvation blows). Is there anything I can do to help increase that? I've read that HoM is better than the weapon I have right now, even for tanking. Our dps make up consists of two rogues, a shaman, a lock and a warrior or DK, maybe a mage on occasion. I'm at the point right now, where there really isn't many things out of heroics that are upgrades besides the trinket from Hour of Twilight, but if there is anything I'm missing, by all means, let me know.

[Tengenstein]

The Order we did when we firt killed DW pre nerf was Red Green Yellow Blue, (i think this is what Theotherone means), should only have one bolt hit, and have the rather large spellweave buff through the entire fight. you should be fine to use Last stand against impales on its own if you have at least 200k raid buffed HP. However i would suggest using Mirror of Broken images to help with Bolt landing damage, as well as spellblock. Also if you're mostly not getting a second impale i would consider going 1 tank/2 heal/7DPS.

The difference between HoM and SD is marginal, HoM HC is worth around 200 mastery or 7k hp, but is about 300dps & 600HPS behind SD normal unless you have an axe expertise racial

[Ltranger]

Would it worth picking up over my current weapon? I'm not CTC capped yet. I'm at about 95.10% unbuffed.

[Tengenstein]

If you need the CTC you should stick with HoM, once your fully CTC capped SD is an option since you're really just trading off a small amount of HP for some DPS and Random HPS.