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Thread: To late to start Hard modes?

  1. #1
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    To late to start Hard modes?

    Basically my guild has recently decided to start doing hard mode DS. I am, Or was not clear atm, the main tank. I Pretty Firmly Believe that it's too late to Clear the instance on HM. And I'm wholly uninterested in even starting HM's unless i can finish them all. To Clarify the situation a bit, Currently the guilds 'Raid schedule' is Tues/wed 10pm-1am then Thursday 11pm-1am, that being said however if we don't finish on the first night it seems like we have to pug half the raid to finish the instance out. Basically my question is what are your thoughts on this.

    - Would an Extremely casual guild even Stand a chance at Finishing the instance on HM this late in the game?

    - What is your opinion on a Partial hm clear before 5.0

    - I've taken a 'I don't want to do hm so I don't want to raid If that is what ya'll are doing' Think i'm just being a drama-queen tank?

    - I really only log on to do these weekly raids, I Also feel that wasting what little gold i have on gemming/enchanting hm upgrades would be a mistake at this point in time
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
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  2. #2
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    If you keep going at it, of course you will kill all the content. But you won't even get Morchok if you don't try. There is plenty of time before MoP launches.

  3. #3
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    We're talking 3 months at the very earliest, Plenty of time to do HMs. the thing is if you don't want to do hard modes then you don't want to do HMs and you need to find a guild that doesn't do hard modes and just does a token one night clear. Your guild is becoming more "hardcore" than you want, time to find a more relaxed and casual guild. On the subject of spenfding gold to upgrade: all gear is transitory, the only set of gear you keep forever will be the last set of gear you collect before Blizz pulls the pug on the wow servers and you are never going to know how quickly you'll replace a piece of gear until you get an upgrade. I remember the first time i got my Axe of LK, went away and spent 1k on getting in enchanted. and the very next lock out i got the HM marrowgar mace... that axe lasted me 1 boss, conversely i never got a shield upgrade through firelands, I got the archaeology shield a few days after it came out, and had that shield until 2 weeks into DS you just don't know. maybe if i hadn't enchanted my axe, i'd have died and we'd have wiped and i' would never have got that heroic mace...hindsights 20/20; the only time I'd say it's a mistake to spend gold on upgrading a piece of gear is if you never used it or if it was wrong (like putting spirit gems in str plate)

    I've never really found gold hard to aquire, doing your dailes is 300-350g, and then i find runnning 5 mans gives a good return on gold and enchant mats which you can either use yourself or sell for a little extra.

    I don't know maybe its time you asked yourself why are you playing wow?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    I don't know maybe its time you asked yourself why are you playing wow?
    Basically my goal is to Finish gearing through normal modes on my dk. 1 Ring, 1 Stupid never dropping 2h axe, and 1 Pair of boots.

    That's all i honestly want from the game currently. I truely enjoyed running the normal modes With those people .

    Also Ive not actually done any dailies this entire xpack.
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  5. #5
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    Play what u want to play. Plain and simple. If you don't want to do HMs then don't.As for spending gold gemming and enchanting, its never really a waste unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that your next boss kill will give u a better item than what u just won. Think legendaries here. Yes MoP will be out soon but to me leveling is just another tier for progression and the more gear u have from the previous tier the easier things will be. Even if that piece of gear only last 1 more level, to me it was worth it.

  6. #6
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    Morchok hc is pretty faceroll, ultraxion hc is a joke with the buff as well. Zon'ozz, Yorsahj and Hagara might take more then a few wipes to get down, you need to do them with a somewhat decent tactic/execution but they aren't very hard either any more. Last 2-3 bosses might remain difficult but I would try to do the first 5 heroic at least they are a fun not to difficult challenge atm. Having fun with hc spine myself atm 7% wipe qq should go down monday for me

  7. #7
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    With the 20 % nerf coming in you should have no problems clearing the current content.

  8. #8
    If you can't clear normal in 1 go, I don't think you have much of a business in hardmode without some recruiting.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbid View Post
    If you can't clear normal in 1 go, I don't think you have much of a business in hardmode without some recruiting.
    Oh yes. So brilliant. -_-

    Don't listen to people who say dumb stuff like this...........

    That said......



    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    Basically my guild has recently decided to start doing hard mode DS. I am, Or was not clear atm, the main tank. I Pretty Firmly Believe that it's too late to Clear the instance on HM. And I'm wholly uninterested in even starting HM's unless i can finish them all. To Clarify the situation a bit, Currently the guilds 'Raid schedule' is Tues/wed 10pm-1am then Thursday 11pm-1am, that being said however if we don't finish on the first night it seems like we have to pug half the raid to finish the instance out. Basically my question is what are your thoughts on this.

    - Would an Extremely casual guild even Stand a chance at Finishing the instance on HM this late in the game?

    - What is your opinion on a Partial hm clear before 5.0

    - I've taken a 'I don't want to do hm so I don't want to raid If that is what ya'll are doing' Think i'm just being a drama-queen tank?

    - I really only log on to do these weekly raids, I Also feel that wasting what little gold i have on gemming/enchanting hm upgrades would be a mistake at this point in time
    Why NOT try hard mode? Look. You guys admit you're casual. So what? Why not push the limits and try to see if you guys can improve? Take on some tougher challenges, open up people's eyes to what is really out there. You have plenty of time.... MoP probably won't hit until September.

    You're approaching this from a bit of a "locked mindset" that if you start heroic/hard mode that you HAVE to finish it out completely before MoP. Why? Why limit yourself? You've never done heroic mode.... so you really don't know if you can or can't do it. Basically.... what you're saying (as I see it) is, "If I'm not guaranteed to win it all.... I don't even wanna play." I mean..... WOW.

    If you guys feel up to trying the challenge, see where you guys stand against hard mode.... go for it. You guys might actually improve from it. Hell, at the least.... it gives you guys some new content and a chance to see where you guys really stand. It'll give you guys some frame of reference as to what you guys might want to do in MoP...... you know, maybe try to bust through normal in a hurry and try to conquer HM sooner.

    Give it a shot. I'd just say sit down ahead of time and figure out what criteria you guys will use in determining whether you push on, or call it.

    No one tanks in a void.........

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Leucifer View Post
    Oh yes. So brilliant. -_-

    Don't listen to people who say dumb stuff like this...........

    That said......
    Fine, I'll try to word it differently.
    You raid 3 hours on your first raid night. Guilds who can kill 1 heroic boss, can usually clear the rest in about 2 hours give or take. If 3 hour ain't enough for normal clear (ohh and btw, it's 20% nerf already putting normal at almost the same dmg/health of bosses as lfr, correct me if I'm wrong but 25% nerf would mean normal bosses have "less" health/dmg then lfr right ?) then going into heroics is gonna be tough on you.

    First off, you need to figure out why it's taking so long to clear normal. Are you wiping ? If so, then why ? Strategy ? Low dps ? People applying lfr tactics (e.i. just standing and nuking waiting for the boss to roll over) ? DC's ? AFK's ?

    Find your problem and fix it first, cause heroics are gonna make these things have a lot more effect.

    Figure out HC tactics and use them on normal, get in practice while clearing normal. Doing heroics it's usually 1-2 things different from normal, though strategy may differ quite a bit. Learning heroics on the spot is gonna make it feel like a whole new fight people have to learn. If you've been applying heroic tactics on normal, they are in your "muscle" memory and people only need to adapt to those 1-2 things that differ from normal. Making transition from normal to heroics a whole lot easier.

    Find your strength and build on it. Is it good tanks ? good healers ? good dps ? Good raidleader ?

    My point is, if you can't clear normal in 1 night of 3 hours of raiding time, you've got problems that are gonna increase once you go into heroics.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbid View Post
    Fine, I'll try to word it differently.
    You raid 3 hours on your first raid night. Guilds who can kill 1 heroic boss, can usually clear the rest in about 2 hours give or take. If 3 hour ain't enough for normal clear (ohh and btw, it's 20% nerf already putting normal at almost the same dmg/health of bosses as lfr, correct me if I'm wrong but 25% nerf would mean normal bosses have "less" health/dmg then lfr right ?) then going into heroics is gonna be tough on you.

    First off, you need to figure out why it's taking so long to clear normal. Are you wiping ? If so, then why ? Strategy ? Low dps ? People applying lfr tactics (e.i. just standing and nuking waiting for the boss to roll over) ? DC's ? AFK's ?

    Find your problem and fix it first, cause heroics are gonna make these things have a lot more effect.

    Figure out HC tactics and use them on normal, get in practice while clearing normal. Doing heroics it's usually 1-2 things different from normal, though strategy may differ quite a bit. Learning heroics on the spot is gonna make it feel like a whole new fight people have to learn. If you've been applying heroic tactics on normal, they are in your "muscle" memory and people only need to adapt to those 1-2 things that differ from normal. Making transition from normal to heroics a whole lot easier.

    Find your strength and build on it. Is it good tanks ? good healers ? good dps ? Good raidleader ?

    My point is, if you can't clear normal in 1 night of 3 hours of raiding time, you've got problems that are gonna increase once you go into heroics.
    Ok. This I can run with.

    I just wouldn't be "afraid" to give heroic a crack. It might help you figure out where your weak spot is. Sometimes things can be "covered up' when material is easier.... but as soon as you apply some pressure and difficulty, you start finding the weak spots. Maybe one or two players are sneaking by due to heals saving them or whatnot on normal. They do the same thing in heroic... and all of a sudden you start seeing problems being exposed more readily. A LOT of times, people will just disregard a problem or waive it off because it's "too hard" to confront the problem or person. Heroic might very well be the nudge needed to explose weak spots and help the team figure out what needs to be improved.

    I agree with a lot of Garbids points here. Find the strengths. Build on them. Use heroic as a tool to help jar people out of complacency.

    And yes, I agree. Your problems will increase in heroic. It also might be the push needed to help you guys get over the plateau in normal. The best "other" example I can give is weightlifting. If you lift the same weight every day.... you'll get good at doing that.... but you will at some point stagnate and no longer develop. You have to add more weight/reps/volume/what-have-you in order to elicit a response.






    No one tanks in a void.........

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbid View Post
    Fine, I'll try to word it differently.
    You raid 3 hours on your first raid night. Guilds who can kill 1 heroic boss, can usually clear the rest in about 2 hours give or take. If 3 hour ain't enough for normal clear (ohh and btw, it's 20% nerf already putting normal at almost the same dmg/health of bosses as lfr, correct me if I'm wrong but 25% nerf would mean normal bosses have "less" health/dmg then lfr right ?) then going into heroics is gonna be tough on you.

    First off, you need to figure out why it's taking so long to clear normal. Are you wiping ? If so, then why ? Strategy ? Low dps ? People applying lfr tactics (e.i. just standing and nuking waiting for the boss to roll over) ? DC's ? AFK's ?

    Find your problem and fix it first, cause heroics are gonna make these things have a lot more effect.

    Figure out HC tactics and use them on normal, get in practice while clearing normal. Doing heroics it's usually 1-2 things different from normal, though strategy may differ quite a bit. Learning heroics on the spot is gonna make it feel like a whole new fight people have to learn. If you've been applying heroic tactics on normal, they are in your "muscle" memory and people only need to adapt to those 1-2 things that differ from normal. Making transition from normal to heroics a whole lot easier.

    Find your strength and build on it. Is it good tanks ? good healers ? good dps ? Good raidleader ?

    My point is, if you can't clear normal in 1 night of 3 hours of raiding time, you've got problems that are gonna increase once you go into heroics.
    The guild could just be taking their time joking around while killing bosses. You know having fun.

  13. #13
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    Your raid schedule will certainly not be a hinderance to your progression if that concerns you. I raid Tues/Sat averaging 5 or 6 hours a week (depending on peoples schedules) and am 5/8 heroic, gonna take a look at boat this weekend. And just because you're a "casual" guild doesn't mean you can't be good at what you do. I like being good at things, I think 99.9% of the human race shares that sentiment. Personally I don't know how you can stand doing those fights on normal still. I was bored with Dragon Soul normals 3 weeks in after we figured out that the Morchok and Yorsaj debuffs kind of tickled a bit and so I could jsut 1 tank it on my warrior. I'm not trying to brag, but let's be honest, the first five bosses especially are kind of a ROFLSTOMP on normal mode. So yeah, even if you end up struggling on the last 3 bosses, you'll probably have a lot more fun doing that then just sitting around making normal mode roll over. And who knows, maybe you'll have better attendance when your raiders feel like they're being chalenged again.
    Last edited by Gregasaurous; 05-10-2012 at 12:23 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglie View Post
    The guild could just be taking their time joking around while killing bosses. You know having fun.
    HERESY!

    On a more serious note: set the instance to heroic and see how far you get. What have you got to lose?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    - Would an Extremely casual guild even Stand a chance at Finishing the instance on HM this late in the game?
    I believe so, DS is still going to be with us for a good while and the nerf is only going to increase. Garbid's second post has a lot of great advice.

    - What is your opinion on a Partial hm clear before 5.0
    I think it's great. You'd have something to aim for, keep the game alive and improve your guild's standing to attract better recruits and encourage better attendance by giving people something to play for rather than just repeating normal modes over and over. I'm not surprised you have attendance problems just doing normal modes.

    - I've taken a 'I don't want to do hm so I don't want to raid If that is what ya'll are doing' Think i'm just being a drama-queen tank?
    If I was in your guild, everyone else wanted to do HMs and you as main tank was stopping us by refusing to go, I'd think you were. BUT it's your game, your money and your time to do what you want to do. The guild must have an off tank or backup tank who could take your place, no one's indispensable. You might well find you wouldn't get a raid spot with them in MoP though, but if you're in a guild that wants to progress in heroics while you only want to do normals, you're in the wrong guild really.

    - I really only log on to do these weekly raids, I Also feel that wasting what little gold i have on gemming/enchanting hm upgrades would be a mistake at this point in time
    Basically my goal is to Finish gearing through normal modes on my dk. 1 Ring, 1 Stupid never dropping 2h axe, and 1 Pair of boots.
    Why not get heroic versions instead?! I don't really understand just being happy with normal mode gear if gear is any kind of motivater for you. I don't think it's ever a waste to make your gear as good as you can, enchants aren't that expensive now and tbh you could get away with blue gems (though if you're a tank the epic ones are pretty cheap I think?).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabitha View Post
    Why not get heroic versions instead?! I don't really understand just being happy with normal mode gear if gear is any kind of motivater for you. I don't think it's ever a waste to make your gear as good as you can, enchants aren't that expensive now and tbh you could get away with blue gems (though if you're a tank the epic ones are pretty cheap I think?).
    This. And yes, i would think Tank gems would be incredibly cheap seeing as the only people not staking their main stat (red gems) are tanks. And even then, i think the average DPS/heal endgame gear set might have at the most 4 sockets that aren't red. So yeah, Yellow/Orange/Green epic gems should be pretty cheap. And that's assuming you don't have a ridiculous stockpile of them in your GB..... *whistles casually*

  17. #17
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    The tank gems are pretty cheap on my realm and plentiful. Currently I have 4 rooms running either heroic ds or pugging ds, and the ones I pug with I don't use epic gems on so that helps with personal supply.And why not make your mains gear as good as it can be? You won't be replacing heroic gear until you start leveling and even then the faster you can kill stuff the faster you can level.

  18. #18
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    its never too late to start HMs all you need is people with brain :P

  19. #19
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    well this post certainly caught a bit of heat. However i have quit the game. that being said however i would like to point out a few things. Weither you view it as outrageous or not i really had no desire to start any hm's unless i can finish them all. hell more or less it seemed to boil down to that alone. Also a quick check shows that my guild in the time that i stopped raiding has killed only morchok and one kill of yor'. could this be because they were set back by losing their main tank? possibly but i believe they just aren't really bothered with going 8/8 hm, which rolls back into my former Controversial statement about my feelings on that.

    And to answer the question as to why i wouldn't want to get better gear, what am i getting better gear for? to cut 30 minutes off the 85-86 grind?

    I spent quite a large amount of time on hm's in wotlk and still ended the exp w/o a hm lk kill, and a few random others, which really leads to a feeling of disappointment, we as a group aren't good enough to kill X. And lets face it if after 6 weeks of killing morchok you just got a second boss down the guild isn't going to kill madness before 5.0.
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  20. #20
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    Our progress in DS heroic was stalled for over a month by our "second tank" quitting the game and not having a replacement.

    The 85-86 grind is a long way off, at LEAST 3 months. So if you had killed one boss every two weeks from now on in, you'd have the place cleared before that time was up (and they should drop faster). Maybe raiding wasn't your thing afterall? It is all about getting to that point where it looks impossible, but you keep going at it until it works. You didn't get H-LK back then. Neither did we. We didn't get Sinestra, Nef, Al'akir or rag while it was current content either. But you can't just give up. If you give up the game wins. We had set-backs, but now we clear 8/8 in 2 hours. I would rather try and fail than not try at all. At least we gave it our best shot, and didn't quit before we tried.

    Forgive me if I am wrong, but it seems to me like you are just grasping at straws to justify quitting on your guild.

    in the time that i stopped raiding has killed only morchok and one kill of yor'
    [...]
    possibly but i believe they just aren't really bothered with going 8/8 hm
    [...]
    what am i getting better gear for? to cut 30 minutes off the 85-86 grind?
    [...]
    And lets face it if after 6 weeks of killing morchok you just got a second boss down the guild isn't going to kill madness before 5.0.

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